The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:29 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 83 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Restoring the VE 9-55 and VE 9-25 Amplifiers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:16 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 607
Location: Florida
It’s been over 30 years since I last worked on electronics and that was on the first of its kind and state of the art data switching systems used to make up the early internet of the 80s. Now it’s time to dig in on that of a much earlier time and am basically starting my electronic studies all over again with a complete focus on early tube radios and phonograph amplifiers. I’ve finished reading my first book and am now starting with with two VE 9-55 (AP-997A) and two VE 9-25 (AP-947A) ampliers. I’ve ordered the capacitors and resisters. I will be replacing those and all the wiring (except the wires coming from the transformers). To replace the caps requires opening up the capacitor cans/boxes, removing or melting the wax, installing new caps, and sealing up the boxes. The boxes might require paint prep and repainting. Below are pictures of the 4 amps, the interior caps and choke of 4 Fuzz Filter boxes from each amp, and the 5 cap boxes opened up from just the first amp.

To accomplish this endeavor has already and surely will continue to require some insight from ours and the tube radio communities in which I am and will forever be very greatful.


Attachments:
3537D0F9-3136-4C9A-8D86-5E982A5B7A6F.jpeg
3537D0F9-3136-4C9A-8D86-5E982A5B7A6F.jpeg [ 2.88 MiB | Viewed 1071 times ]
FAE86208-5B17-4489-8174-4C16D79BD714.jpeg
FAE86208-5B17-4489-8174-4C16D79BD714.jpeg [ 2.55 MiB | Viewed 1071 times ]
784ABFFD-1E45-4BA7-ADBE-B2DA8A542249.jpeg
784ABFFD-1E45-4BA7-ADBE-B2DA8A542249.jpeg [ 856.39 KiB | Viewed 1071 times ]
109FB833-CC26-4A8A-BDB5-454614165161.jpeg
109FB833-CC26-4A8A-BDB5-454614165161.jpeg [ 1.07 MiB | Viewed 1071 times ]
A4438397-86F4-4997-98B4-B75CB8C4474D.jpeg
A4438397-86F4-4997-98B4-B75CB8C4474D.jpeg [ 1.82 MiB | Viewed 1071 times ]
568C1BFC-8555-471E-8552-2D1FC08594E4.jpeg
568C1BFC-8555-471E-8552-2D1FC08594E4.jpeg [ 2.94 MiB | Viewed 1071 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the VE 9-55 and VE 9-25 Amplifiers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:04 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
Edison, Columbia, Victor, Pathé...and oddball makes
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:06 pm
Posts: 1347
Wayne - I strongly suggest contacting Chuck Azzalina, who is extremely knowledgeable and experienced specifically on the Big Victor flavors of the Tomcat. There are enough variations across the models (and even running improvements to each model) that you can't trust your gut and often not even the published schematics.

Do you have the service notes, either separately or in the Red Book?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the VE 9-55 and VE 9-25 Amplifiers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:40 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 607
Location: Florida
Peter,

Thank you for the advisement but I already have covered these things. I have all the Victor and RCA documents (in which I reread daily now), have been consulting with ChuckA (with whom I’ve got great respect and appreciation) , and would never trust my gut in any area I’ve not previously had a thorough understanding and experience. However, similar to your reply, I seek any and all input.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the VE 9-55 and VE 9-25 Amplifiers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:06 pm 
Offline
Victor O
User avatar
Look for the Dog
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 7:49 pm
Posts: 74
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Wayne,

For reference or your amusement. Photos attached of my restoring the Tomcat Condensers/Capacitors.

Chuck is the greatest! I usually talk with him several times a week. Do whatever Chuck tells you and where to buy the parts.

In my photos below I am using up parts I had in stock in particular the 2= 10uF 600V caps in series. You do not necessairly need to go that route these days as you can get the 4uF in 1400V these days which are smaller and more economical to buy.

Carlton Smith
electrolaman 64
Indianapolis, IN


Attachments:
File comment: Note: Balance resistors used
4mf high voltage replacement (6).JPG
4mf high voltage replacement (6).JPG [ 313.65 KiB | Viewed 831 times ]
4mf high voltage replacement (7).JPG
4mf high voltage replacement (7).JPG [ 568.11 KiB | Viewed 831 times ]
File comment: 2MF cap replacement in can.
2mf replacement (1).JPG
2mf replacement (1).JPG [ 553.91 KiB | Viewed 1039 times ]
File comment: Restored high voltage cap
4mf high voltage replacement (3).JPG
4mf high voltage replacement (3).JPG [ 475.13 KiB | Viewed 1039 times ]
4mf high voltage replacement (10).JPG
4mf high voltage replacement (10).JPG [ 450.1 KiB | Viewed 1039 times ]
4mf high voltage replacement (9).JPG
4mf high voltage replacement (9).JPG [ 410.47 KiB | Viewed 1039 times ]
4mf high voltage replacement (8).JPG
4mf high voltage replacement (8).JPG [ 494.23 KiB | Viewed 1039 times ]
File comment: 4MF cap as original
old 4mf caps (3).JPG
old 4mf caps (3).JPG [ 1.91 MiB | Viewed 1039 times ]
File comment: Tomcat amp for my Ve10-70
IMG_8491.JPG
IMG_8491.JPG [ 726.06 KiB | Viewed 1039 times ]


Last edited by electrolaman 64 on Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the VE 9-55 and VE 9-25 Amplifiers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:39 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 607
Location: Florida
Carlton,

Fantastic! I like your methods of supporting the caps and use of the bare phenolic prototype board. Thanks for sharing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the VE 9-55 and VE 9-25 Amplifiers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:12 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 607
Location: Florida
Here’s 4 amps worth of 2uf and 4uf caps that will be brought to the hazardous waste drop off this Saturday. I can’t say that was very fun taking them out of the cans. The new 4uf cap (front left) is to replace the large ones seen in the photo below. This will knock 3.5 lbs off the weight of each machine.


Attachments:
48056FBB-190E-4CD7-9EA0-826B4572C3B4.jpeg
48056FBB-190E-4CD7-9EA0-826B4572C3B4.jpeg [ 2.46 MiB | Viewed 903 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the VE 9-55 and VE 9-25 Amplifiers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:24 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
Edison, Columbia, Victor, Pathé...and oddball makes
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:06 pm
Posts: 1347
This is exactly why I pulled mine out entirely, or left them in place but disconnected, and put in the modern smaller replacements. I do this for the stuff that nobody will ever see, but also leave the original stuff with it for the next owner.

Everyone gets to decide for themselves. Neither way is more correct, and I always go for the safest and quickest way back to operability.

I doubt these caps are hazardous or especially toxic, but I’m unwilling to test that!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the VE 9-55 and VE 9-25 Amplifiers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:02 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 607
Location: Florida
Peter,

I doubt these old caps are toxic too but I’ll be going to the hazardous waste drop-off anyway to get rid of dirty kerosene from previously cleaning the disassembled six type-1 changers.

I feel even with the amplifier cover on, you can see the cap cans these caps went into, if you look between the tubes and into the amp. So I’ll be installing each replacement cap in the original can. Speed of getting this done is not my focus. I’m sure I could get away with not replacing the wires with new cloth covered ones, but I just don’t like how brittle the old ones are. The same goes with the ceramic wound resistors. Since I found a few bad, I’m gonna replace them all. This adds another $60 cost for each amp just for 3 each, but I want these to be fresh. Nothing like opening the hood of your hot rod and seeing the original engine rebuilt with new electrical components that look like the originals. My reasoning however is more for safety and longevity, I hope superior sound is part of the outcome.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the VE 9-55 and VE 9-25 Amplifiers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:48 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:48 am
Posts: 544
Location: New Hampshire
I don't think replacing perfectly good resistors is not going to make it sound any better.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Restoring the VE 9-55 and VE 9-25 Amplifiers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:25 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 607
Location: Florida
First off, reliability is key. I had tested a few of the resistors when they were on the amps and found a high number bad. My methods are such, if I find a bunch of rotten eggs in a carton, I’m not even going to hesitate to buy a new carton of eggs.

So, I just removed all three resistors from three of the four amps. As you know, two of three on each of these amps (AP-947A and AP-997A) have a tap that divides each into two resistors. Therefore, there are a total of five resistors on the set of three ceramic tube resistors. The values are 1400ohms/2000ohms, 300ohms/520ohms, and 2480ohms. Only the 300 ohm part of one ceramic tube resistor was good out of the set of five resistors. The other four resistors were open. This was true for the resistors for all three amps.

A far cry from “perfectly good resistors”.

New set of replacements are on the lower left of the photo below and they test as their values are suppose to be.


Attachments:
A61819A3-4E2A-4C65-A7F1-41D0B989E7EA.jpeg
A61819A3-4E2A-4C65-A7F1-41D0B989E7EA.jpeg [ 2.43 MiB | Viewed 851 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 83 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Xinn and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.