The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

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 Post subject: Oak stain and asphaltum alternatives.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:45 pm 
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Victor II
Martin - 16 y/o
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 6:27 pm
Posts: 406
As many of you have seen, I've started working on an amberola 30. I've been going at the wood with gojo and steel wool daily, but I don't think I will be satisfied with the results unless I refinish it. While the lid is in pretty good shape, I know that it will not match up unless I refinish both the cabinet and the lid. What stain, grain filler, and shellac finish that I should use?


I have also looked into buying asphaltum, and it seems to be incredibly expensive (at least by my standards). The one that I know of that is accurate is the one from liberty Hudson (http://www.libertyonthehudson.com/pontypool.html) Does anyone know of a cheaper source of asphaltum that will yield similar results?

Sorry for all the dumb questions
Martin


Last edited by Mormon S on Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What golden oak stain and grain filler should I use?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:35 pm 
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Victor IV
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"A Phonograph in every home..."
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:02 pm
Posts: 1016
Location: Melbourne, FL (Former New Yorker!)
May people forgo the Ashphaltum and just prime the and paint the bedplate using a good primer and a Black enamel spray bomb, Add decals, then shellac over that...

Personally, I use the Original Industrial Krylon which is more of a Lacquer (not found in stores). It can still be found on Ebay and at Grainger outlets and Grainger online.

Good Minwax Oak Stains can be found at any Home Depot or Lowe's home improvement stores...

Correct Orange finishing Shellac can be found at APSCO Phonograph Supply online.


:o)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer


Last edited by NEFaurora on Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What golden oak stain and grain filler should I use?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:04 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 2180
Location: Harrison Township, MI
I prefer to use dye stains. Such as Behlin Solar-Lux. If you go that route, wear gloves!


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 Post subject: Re: What golden oak stain and grain filler should I use?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:00 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:15 am
Posts: 29
I've also been doing research into asphaltum, and there are a lot of homebrew recipies out there as an alternative to ponypool (the quart they sell seems to be more than anyone would ever need.)

The powder itself can be bought relatively cheaply, and it can be mixed with various formulas of turpentine and BLO. Try searching "japanning" and old hand plans and you'll find some fruitful discussions. I even found one where the guy mixed a pulverized 78 with methyl. Those guys talk alot about a Ford engine paint as an alternative to jappaning. Any thoughts?

The biggest strike against it for me is the need for an oven (not your home oven!!), and prolonged curing times. :(

I'd really like to try it, but good results only seem possible in industrial applications.

Good luck in your search!


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 Post subject: Re: What golden oak stain and grain filler should I use?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:08 pm 
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Victor IV
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"A Phonograph in every home..."
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:02 pm
Posts: 1016
Location: Melbourne, FL (Former New Yorker!)
"a Ford engine paint"

Being the Owner of many old Fords...

That would most likely be Duplicolor Gloss Black . ...which you can find at most autoparts stores... never thought about using it, but sounds interesting..


Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer


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 Post subject: Re: What golden oak stain and grain filler should I use?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:18 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:15 am
Posts: 29
Correct, here is one take on it.

https://www.rexmill.com/planes101/japan ... anning.htm


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 Post subject: Re: What golden oak stain and grain filler should I use?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:20 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:15 am
Posts: 29
Of course, most people (like me) restore planes to be useable and free of rust....


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 Post subject: Re: What golden oak stain and grain filler should I use?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:43 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 856
Martin, I've used asphaltum. It's rather a pain to use as one needs to bake it. There is a bit of a learning curve to it. Obviously, it can be neat to use THE stuff that was used back in the day. However, if you simply want it to look authentic, it's mostly what you do after it's painted that makes it look "right". Mostly it's in over coating the enamel with orange shellac that gives the black the "depth" we're used to seeing. What ever you end up doing, good luck with the restoration and keep us posted.
Regards,
Martin


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 Post subject: Re: What golden oak stain and grain filler should I use?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:15 pm 
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Victor II
Martin - 16 y/o
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 6:27 pm
Posts: 406
martinola wrote:
Martin, I've used asphaltum. It's rather a pain to use as one needs to bake it. There is a bit of a learning curve to it. Obviously, it can be neat to use THE stuff that was used back in the day. However, if you simply want it to look authentic, it's mostly what you do after it's painted that makes it look "right". Mostly it's in over coating the enamel with orange shellac that gives the black the "depth" we're used to seeing. What ever you end up doing, good luck with the restoration and keep us posted.
Regards,
Martin

I have read through you're restoration log of youre standard model E from long ago, and I was really impressed with the outcome. Im still open to using asphaltum on my standard E, but I think I will try out the engine paint method, and I'll be using the orange shellac from APSCO.

When I stain the wood with something like min wax, do I need a grain filler, and do I use the same orange shellac that I would use for the bedplate?

Thank you guys for the replies
Martin


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 Post subject: Re: What golden oak stain and grain filler should I use?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:20 am 
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Victor IV
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"A Phonograph in every home..."
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:02 pm
Posts: 1016
Location: Melbourne, FL (Former New Yorker!)
Replacement decals should be gotten from Gregg Kline at www.phonodecal.com

The best Phonograph decal maker in the biz!

:o)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer


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