The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

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 Post subject: Re: Possibility for better Diamond Stylus?
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 3:22 pm 
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Victor II
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 1:55 pm
Posts: 392
Hi all, It should be noted that diamond was, until this new harder compound was found, the hardest material on earth. Diamond was (to my knowledge) harder than carburized and or nitrided steel. The surface of a DD is hard but not as hard as diamond, additionally, Edison coated the DD records with an organic lubricant. The lubricant would reduce ware due to the hydrodynamic lubrication and at least partial separation of the record from the stylus similar to oil or grease in a bearing maybe not quite that well as in the case of a bearing.
It might be desirable to clean and lubricate your DD from time to time.
I learned about the lubricant in reading the section of the DD book on manufacturing of DD records.
I am sure stones will be thrown at this but changing steel needles to minimize ware in 87 does not stop ware and yes fiber needles are a good alternative. Fiber needles also will act as a soft lapping material with the abrasive in the record lodging in the soft material to abrade the record. All mechanical methods of playing records ware the record to one degree or another.
I do not know and do not care which method wares the record fastest the question is do you like the music made in the playing?
Allen


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 Post subject: Re: Possibility for better Diamond Stylus?
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 3:59 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 934
A Ford 1 wrote:
Hi all, It should be noted that diamond was, until this new harder compound was found, the hardest material on earth. Diamond was (to my knowledge) harder than carburized and or nitrided steel. The surface of a DD is hard but not as hard as diamond, additionally, Edison coated the DD records with an organic lubricant. The lubricant would reduce ware due to the hydrodynamic lubrication and at least partial separation of the record from the stylus similar to oil or grease in a bearing maybe not quite that well as in the case of a bearing.
It might be desirable to clean and lubricate your DD from time to time.
I learned about the lubricant in reading the section of the DD book on manufacturing of DD records.
Allen

Isn’t the lubricant stearin? There is an Edison patent that deals with application of stearin on DD surfaces to reduce surface noise.


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 Post subject: Re: Possibility for better Diamond Stylus?
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 10:58 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:44 pm
Posts: 1497
As to the cost of stylus and the sound of the Edison verses the Victrola I have a couple comments.. One is that sometimes we don't really compare what one commodity cost we always buy compared to something were thinking of buying. That happened to me today while out antique mall hopping. I had wanted something for some time and saw one at what I would usually considered a good price around 48.00. I hemmed and hawed over if I should pay that for it. Then it stuck me that it was really less than a couple tanks full of gas and I don't get to keep and enjoy that. The other is that many may not agree, the sound of the surfaces can be rather distracting on Edison for sure, but when its playing if you have a good diaphragm and stylus and record, you are going to get the zenith of sound from an acoustic machine. The tones of the instruments are so real and pop out in a way that the lateral cut records of the same period just don't do as well. Its why some few years back I finally sold my Credenza I had for many years. I had it and the Chippendale in the living room which opens into a dining room and then the kitchen. When they were playing it struck me how alive the sound was from the Edison, like the people were really in my living room as I listened from the kitchen. The Orthophonic while sounding quite good, had a different kind of sound, one that from that distance didn't seem to carry the realism of sound the same as the Edison.


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 Post subject: Re: Possibility for better Diamond Stylus?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 4:30 pm 
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Victor II
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 1:55 pm
Posts: 392
Hi, Yes indeed it was stearin that Edison used which is the main component of tallow and suet it is also in palm oil. Pure stearin is a solid and I am not sure that they used pure stearin. That does not mean that other lubricants might not not only work but one should take care in selecting a different one. Since this is a very high contact pressure lub. and sliding task, one might think of graphite and or molybdenum disulfide which are excellent in high contact pressures but both are mined from the earth and contain ash or grit (to my knowledge) that might cause damage to the record and ware to the diamond. I do not know if one can get 100% pure varieties of either of these solid lubricants. I would think if one could get a 100% pure version of either and suspend them in stearin or some other very viscous lubricant it would be desirable to use on a DD.
Allen


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