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 Post subject: Re: worn diamond stylus?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 7:21 am 
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Victor VI
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NEFaurora wrote:
"If you are hearing "echoing" when playing cylinders, it's time for a new stylus."

Not necessarily. I have found quite a few Diamond Stylus Reproducers in the past that if the Adjustment Screw up top is tightened too tight that the lower part of the Reproducer is frozen and has no "Horizontal" movement... that it will also produce echoing....just like a worn stylus. If the reproducer has good lower "Horizontal" movement and it still produces echoing, then "Yes", The Stylus is surely shot.

...But ALWAYS check the lower "Horizontal" movement first. If the lower part of the Reproducer can move side to side, then you should be good if the STYLUS is still good.

You can usually tell by a good visual look through a Jewler's loupe also.

:o)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer

Hi Tony,

I'm curious because I don't know, but to what "Adjustment Screw up top" are you referring?

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: worn diamond stylus?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 11:45 am 
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Victor IV
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In a DD reproducer, the link is connected to the diaphragm via an eye bolt that passes through the center hole of the diaphragm and is secured by a nut on the top. In order to get to the nut, the blob of shellac used to seal and secure the bolt needs to be removed. Sometimes it can be chipped off or it can be softened by the careful use of alcohol. The nut can then be loosened and adjustment made.
However, that being said, I have never seen a case in almost 50 years of working on these things where this adjustment needs to be made. I wouldn't advise anyone to consider doing so except possibly when installing a new link.
Diamond cylinder reproducers do not use the eye bolt. In those, the link cord is passed through the center hole of the diaphragm and clamped in place with a U shaped wire.


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 Post subject: Re: worn diamond stylus?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 3:21 pm 
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Victor VI
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phonojim wrote:
In a DD reproducer, the link is connected to the diaphragm via an eye bolt that passes through the center hole of the diaphragm and is secured by a nut on the top. In order to get to the nut, the blob of shellac used to seal and secure the bolt needs to be removed. Sometimes it can be chipped off or it can be softened by the careful use of alcohol. The nut can then be loosened and adjustment made.
However, that being said, I have never seen a case in almost 50 years of working on these things where this adjustment needs to be made. I wouldn't advise anyone to consider doing so except possibly when installing a new link.
Diamond cylinder reproducers do not use the eye bolt. In those, the link cord is passed through the center hole of the diaphragm and clamped in place with a U shaped wire.

I'm aware of that attachment point, but that's not something I would consider to typically be used as an "adjustment". Maybe during a complete rebuild, but certainly not "on the fly".

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: worn diamond stylus?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 3:42 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Fran,

It's always challenging when folks play fast and loose with terminology. I don't know for sure what Edison documentation labelled it, but I suspect Tony was referring to the vertical shoulder screw at the rear of the reproducer that secures the weight to the reproducer body. It's not an "Adjustment Screw," but it does sometimes need loosening/cleaning/lubrication to allow the weight better lateral movement. Of course, that's only a guess...

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: worn diamond stylus?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 5:10 pm 
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Victor VI
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phonogfp wrote:
Fran,

It's always challenging when folks play fast and loose with terminology. I don't know for sure what Edison documentation labelled it, but I suspect Tony was referring to the vertical shoulder screw at the rear of the reproducer that secures the weight to the reproducer body. It's not an "Adjustment Screw," but it does sometimes need loosening/cleaning/lubrication to allow the weight better lateral movement. Of course, that's only a guess...

George P.

Ah, yes. The floating weight pivot screw, that makes sense. If the weight can't properly pivot, that would affect playback negatively.

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: worn diamond stylus?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 5:55 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
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fran604g wrote:
Ah, yes. The floating weight pivot screw, that makes sense. If the weight can't properly pivot, that would affect playback negatively.

Best,
Fran


Yep. When diagnosing playback problems with Diamond Disc or Diamond A/B/C/D cylinder reproducers, insuring the weight's free lateral movement is "Restoration 101." On a number of occasions, I've found C/H/K reproducers with stiff hinge blocks too.

All this demonstrates the value of the Bell & Tainter U.S. Patent No.341,214 (granted May 4, 1886), which specified a loose mounting/universal joint so the stylus could "float" with the irregularities of the record groove. Edison's tinfoil Phonographs used rigidly mounted recording and reproducing styli, as did the early "spectacle" Class Ms and the Standard Speakers. Graphophones from the first had the advantage of "floating" styli. Edison appropriated the idea in the Automatic Reproducer of 1890-1902, and of course subsequent models.

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: worn diamond stylus?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 11:29 pm 
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Victor IV
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No offense meant, Fran. I hadn't thought of the pivot screw that George mentioned. Probably not enough coffee before I commented.

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: worn diamond stylus?
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 4:47 am 
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Victor VI
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phonojim wrote:
No offense meant, Fran. I hadn't thought of the pivot screw that George mentioned. Probably not enough coffee before I commented.

Jim

No troubles, Jim. I was just trying to understand what Tony meant.

Cheers,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: worn diamond stylus?
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:26 pm 
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Victor IV
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"Fran,

It's always challenging when folks play fast and loose with terminology. I don't know for sure what Edison documentation labelled it, but I suspect Tony was referring to the vertical shoulder screw at the rear of the reproducer that secures the weight to the reproducer body. It's not an "Adjustment Screw," but it does sometimes need loosening/cleaning/lubrication to allow the weight better lateral movement. Of course, that's only a guess...

George P."


Yeah,

George P. nailed it....

It's the Vertical Shoulder screw....

I never bothered to look up its "Technical" term before...lol...

Not meaning or trying to be "Fast and Loose"....but it seems that a few others all have different names for it as well... :lol:

:o)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer


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 Post subject: Re: worn diamond stylus?
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:56 pm 
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Victor IV
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"A Phonograph in every home..."
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Location: Melbourne, FL (Former New Yorker!)
In Fran's old article on the "Duncan Stop" out on APS, He (Fran) refers to it as a "Pivot Pin Retaining Screw" for the Pivot Block. Maybe he remembers where he got the name from..

:o)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer


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