Sonora “Orthophonic type” machines, as good as Victrola?

[VanEpsFan1914]

I used to have a Panatrope portable phonograph, model P-109, from 1929. It had an all-metal horn and double spring motor.

It was so loud that the first time I played it (out in our barn) the house filled up with music, even with the windows closed. Flatt & Scruggs sounded louder than live. I sold it for $45 and they're fairly easy to find if you look or get connections.

Regarding design it was far superior to the Victrola 2-65 portable except it weighed a ton and you would bust your knuckles cranking it unless the edge of the machine and the edge of the table lined up. The angled cranks of the Victor & HMV portables are very nice. Other than that, I think a Panatrope 109 is the prince of --one could hardly call it portable--the luggables.

[JerryVan]

I have seen a few small Victrola 4-3 size machines lately, (Brunswick and Sonora), but I have been hesitant to move on any of them. Are they a good machine for playing electronically recorded records? Any drawbacks or issues? Was the Victrola better?

Thanks

The Victrola Orthophonics are arguably best. Brunswick Panatropes are very nice as well. Maybe not better or worse than a Victor, but just a little different. I don't believe many people can judge a Sonora of the same era, due to the fact that almost all of them had their pot-metal reproducers disintegrate many years ago.

[Django]

Thank you for all of the valuable information. I found and purchased a nice two door Credenza today, with albums. It appears untouched and in great shape including a nice Brass reproducer. I think that I did well for my $350.00. It’s always nice to find an original survivor in the wilds or New Hampshire, (it was in an old Grange Hall). I don’t suppose that the forum could help me with my next question, where do I put it?, (I mean in a kind and helpful way. I left myself wide open, so please, let’s keep it clean).

[OrthoSean]

Thank you for all of the valuable information. I found and purchased a nice two door Credenza today, with albums. It appears untouched and in great shape including a nice Brass reproducer. I think that I did well for my $350.00. It’s always nice to find an original survivor in the wilds or New Hampshire, (it was in an old Grange Hall). I don’t suppose that the forum could help me with my next question, where do I put it?, (I mean in a kind and helpful way. I left myself wide open, so please, let’s keep it clean).

You certainly did well for $350 for a two door Credenza, mine came straight out of the original owner's living room where it has sat since it was presented to her by her husband for Christmas 1925, mine also came with the original albums and it's electric. I bought it in the summer of 1999 when the woman was moving into an assisted living community at 92 and I was put in touch with her by a guy who had repaired some older radios she had. I'd never seen a cleaner one and immediately paid the $300 she was asking. The funny thing was, she refused to let the record in the albums go with it, but I did get the albums and all the other original goodies. Lately I've been trying to downsize my larger machines, but my Credenza will never leave. It looks great, sounds amazing and I'm the second owner. The fact that it never left her living room said a lot to me and she was very proud of it.

Enjoy your new find, I can relate to the "where to put it" aspect daily these days. My Credenza is currently out of the main machine room since I've picked up more than a few beasts in the last couple of years, but my plan is to rotate things around periodically so they can all get regular use and admiration.

Sean

[marcapra]

Sean, I can almost picture that Credenza of yours. Is it mahogany or walnut? I once had a lovely light walnut model, but had to sell it as I acquired more large machines. The problem with this hobby is the hoarding instinct makes me want to buy again the machines I sold off in the past! The guy talking about how good the Brunswicks are is right. I really miss that big spruce horn on my Cortez. What a loud, but focused, sound that horn made! That's another machine I would like to acquire again! I already have a Columbia Viva Tonal 800. I'm getting ready to move my VE-8-9 Victrola Orthophonic with a Wyatt Markus reproducer into the parlor to sit next to the Columbia 800. Then I'm going to do a sound comparison using the same records, both acoustic and electric. I will then report my findings. Marc.

[travisgreyfox]

Sean, I can almost picture that Credenza of yours. Is it mahogany or walnut? I once had a lovely light walnut model, but had to sell it as I acquired more large machines. The problem with this hobby is the hoarding instinct makes me want to buy again the machines I sold off in the past! The guy talking about how good the Brunswicks are is right. I really miss that big spruce horn on my Cortez. What a loud, but focused, sound that horn made! That's another machine I would like to acquire again! I already have a Columbia Viva Tonal 800. I'm getting ready to move my VE-8-9 Victrola Orthophonic with a Wyatt Markus reproducer into the parlor to sit next to the Columbia 800. Then I'm going to do a sound comparison using the same records, both acoustic and electric. I will then report my findings. Marc.

I cant wait to hear your report on this.

[OrthoSean]

Well, here's my thing. Over the last 20 years, I've managed to pick up pretty much all of the large machines I've ever hoped to own and then some. My Credenza is Mahogany and it really is the most clean one I've ever seen. In my machine room, I have a restored 10-50, a Cortez, a Columbia 810 that some may recall turned up near me last winter that the seller begged me to take before they moved, a VV-8-7 and a VV 8-8. I can do all kinds of fun sound comparisons. Wyatt has rebuilt just about every single orthophonic reproducer I have and the one on my 810 which sounds phenomenal. It's been said before here by myself and others that each machine has it's own "sound". I really enjoy playing each one, but man they take up basically the entire room by themselves. Throw in an Oak B-250, an A 275, An early lyre grill 1A and my most recent purchase, a Circassian Walnut L-door XVI and I'm maxed out in display space, but it is fun having them all!

Sean

[bigshot]

My take is that each of the big three machines are a little different.

The Credenza is great for electrical records, with better low end due to its exponential horn. But acoustics can sound a bit muffled and distant on it. Best to have another earlier victrola for acoustics.

The Brunswick is good for both electricals and acoustics, but it doesn't have quite as much low end as the Credenza. If you had to pick just one machine, this is it.

The Columbia plays both acoustics and electricals well, but it has a sound dispersion pattern that is very unique. It channels the sound out to the sides. This can fill a room nicely, but if you like the directional sound of old phonographs with a horn, it might seem a bit diffuse to you, especially if you sit right in front of it. It works better with a lot of open space around it.

[larryh]

Yes the Columbia has a very different focal point for the sound compared to some others . The two horns pushing the sound sideways and at a lower level means that the sound while sitting is ideal, but standing it is a bit less impressive. I love mine though and if your really into listening then the seated sound level is no problem. And yes the acoustic records do surprisingly well on it. Plus mine at least has a very large range of volumes dependent on the needle. I find that on the Columbia the same record that is quite satisfying with a loud needle is far too loud on the Victor. My orthophonic generally required a soft tone needle on many records, but some would work with a medium tone if they were really softly recorded.