The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

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 Post subject: Re: Plastic phonograph needles - Has anybody tried them?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:53 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1598
CarlosV wrote:
The video is interesting but it only demonstrates that the plastic needle can play one side of a record. A product like this to be convincing needs an endurance test, i.e., play the same record multiple times changing for a new needle after every play, and checking the wear afterwords. Our experience as collectors show that a record played with steel needles that are not reused, or played with thorn needles, is subject to minimal wear after hundreds of cumulative playing, and this is what makes most of us collectors confident in utilizing such needles to play our records.


In 1980 an old collector I knew told me that in 1930 he and a friend took two new 78s and played them , the first with a steel needle used over and over again , after 8 plays the sound was greatly degraded and then if played with a new needle very poor , the record grooves were visibly damaged , they then played the second record over a few days hundreds of times using a new needle each time the result was no visible record wear and the sound was still as good , I often thought about trying to repeat this but life is too short :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Plastic phonograph needles - Has anybody tried them?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:01 am 
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Victor V
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 2579
soundgen wrote:
CarlosV wrote:
The video is interesting but it only demonstrates that the plastic needle can play one side of a record. A product like this to be convincing needs an endurance test, i.e., play the same record multiple times changing for a new needle after every play, and checking the wear afterwords. Our experience as collectors show that a record played with steel needles that are not reused, or played with thorn needles, is subject to minimal wear after hundreds of cumulative playing, and this is what makes most of us collectors confident in utilizing such needles to play our records.


In 1980 an old collector I knew told me that in 1930 he and a friend took two new 78s and played them , the first with a steel needle used over and over again , after 8 plays the sound was greatly degraded and then if played with a new needle very poor , the record grooves were visibly damaged , they then played the second record over a few days hundreds of times using a new needle each time the result was no visible record wear and the sound was still as good , I often thought about trying to repeat this but life is too short :lol:


There is someone on YouTube who did that, making videos of the same record after 1 play, 10 plays, 20 plays, etc., up to about 100. I though he had done more, but perhaps someone else did this too? Here's a link to the first play. You can find the others on the same channel.

(Double-click the video above or click this link to go to the video on YouTube.)



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 Post subject: Re: Plastic phonograph needles - Has anybody tried them?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:26 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1598
record wear test play 100


https://youtu.be/Y8zm64GGizY


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 Post subject: Re: Plastic phonograph needles - Has anybody tried them?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:37 pm 
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Victor V
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 2577
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
Imagine making a wear test video of a Blue Amberol cylinder, which Edison claimed would play 3,000 times without wear.

At an average 4 minutes duration that's 12,000 minutes = 200 hours, not including rewinding time!


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 Post subject: Re: Plastic phonograph needles - Has anybody tried them?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:11 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1598
epigramophone wrote:
Imagine making a wear test video of a Blue Amberol cylinder, which Edison claimed would play 3,000 times without wear.

At an average 4 minutes duration that's 12,000 minutes = 200 hours, not including rewinding time!


yes but no one would play a record 3,000 times would they? they would have dozens of records , all that says is they are usable during a lifetime and as we can all see most are still playable in in 2019 , so with 78s most are still playable now even the worn ones try WD40 :lol: and steel needles used once only !


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 Post subject: Re: Plastic phonograph needles - Has anybody tried them?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:03 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:50 am
Posts: 6
I recently investigated the original commercial standard Bryson in his 1935 book "The Gramophone Record" itemises all the technical details of and record production and testing.

"with a sound box 40 plays without unacceptable wear is expected and with an electrical pick up 100 plays would be expected".

Also I am sure you all realise that test were run with 3 or 4 sound boxes or pick up arms on the record at once.

with cylinders the obvious process is to play a portion of the record only.
3000 plays of 10 seconds is sill 8 hours of run time and very boring.


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 Post subject: Re: Plastic phonograph needles - Has anybody tried them?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:55 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:12 pm
Posts: 1466
This may be a stupid suggestion, but it seems to me, as an experiment, this might be worth a try:

Attachment:
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG [ 31.7 KiB | Viewed 88 times ]


They would have to be cut to the appropriate length, and pointed with fine sandpaper, or a thorn or cactus needle sharpener.

OrthoFan


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 Post subject: Re: Plastic phonograph needles - Has anybody tried them?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:06 am 
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Victor II
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:52 am
Posts: 218
Location: Redruth, Cornwall, U.K.
OrthoFan wrote:
This [plastic cocktail picks] may be a stupid suggestion, but it seems to me, as an experiment, this might be worth a try.

They would have to be cut to the appropriate length, and pointed with fine sandpaper, or a thorn or cactus needle sharpener.

OrthoFan


I have ordered a similar item and shall see what I can make of them.

Oliver Mundy.


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