Victor V Restoration

[EarlH]

How does refinishing with deft laquer differ from using shellac?

I'm probably the wrong person to ask. I started using Deft years ago before any forums had discussions about the merits and historic correctness of shellac. I welcome comments from shellac users. Jerry

I could be wrong- hey, it's been known to happen! - but I don't think shellac was used on any USA built disc machines as a rule- was it? I'm sure there's an exception, but I don't recall ever seeing one unless it was refinished.

Well, Victor really used a "shellac based" finish. They would have called it a spirit varnish and they added other gums and/or resins to shellac so it would build up and level out better than just shellac will. It's almost impossible to build up a thick finish with just shellac, the way Victor did on those cabinets back before they switched to lacquer in 1924. Shellac may be closer to what Victor actually used, but lacquer isn't that much different either. Especially if you go to the trouble of rubbing it down after it's cured. Most finishes on better furniture were rubbed out in those days. I usually use Mohawk piano lacquer for most of what I refinish, and as long as the Deft lacquer isn't pre-catalyzed I see no problem with it. The catalyzed finishes will pop loose on sharp corners (in case you've ever wondered what the deal with with micro beveled edges on everything these days) But the worst aspect of them is that paint remover will not remove them. And they will craze if you lay them down too thick. I am NOT a fan of those finishes.

If you are using shellac and you are having trouble with it laying down after the first coat, the problem is usually too much methanol in the painter's alcohol you are using. The "Green" painters alcohol is expensive, but it has the least amount of methanol in it that the law allows for denatured alcohol. You'll have better luck using that in your shellac if you are mixing your own from flakes. 190 proof grain alcohol is ok as well.

I think your V case looks fine. I don't know why those things will turn dark like they do, I have one that's really turned dark. But I'm like you and like oak better on the darker side anyway. Golden oak was not a light as most people think it was. I've mixed up the asphaltum varnish, gold japan size and turpentine for the color. It looks really nice, but is darker than you'll expect it to be and does look like what you see behind your hardware and columns before you washed off the finish. I saw that machine when it came up for sale up north of Minneapolis, but I had just been up there the day before and really didn't feel like going right back up there again! I'm glad you got it sir. Earl.

[Jwb88]

This looks fantastic! I really like the sheen. I think it could fool a lot of us into thinking it was an extremely well-preserved original finish.

[gramophone-georg]

Well, Victor really used a "shellac based" finish. They would have called it a spirit varnish and they added other gums and/or resins to shellac so it would build up and level out better than just shellac will. It's almost impossible to build up a thick finish with just shellac, the way Victor did on those cabinets back before they switched to lacquer in 1924. Shellac may be closer to what Victor actually used, but lacquer isn't that much different either. Especially if you go to the trouble of rubbing it down after it's cured. Most finishes on better furniture were rubbed out in those days. I usually use Mohawk piano lacquer for most of what I refinish, and as long as the Deft lacquer isn't pre-catalyzed I see no problem with it. The catalyzed finishes will pop loose on sharp corners (in case you've ever wondered what the deal with with micro beveled edges on everything these days) But the worst aspect of them is that paint remover will not remove them. And they will craze if you lay them down too thick. I am NOT a fan of those finishes.

If you are using shellac and you are having trouble with it laying down after the first coat, the problem is usually too much methanol in the painter's alcohol you are using. The "Green" painters alcohol is expensive, but it has the least amount of methanol in it that the law allows for denatured alcohol. You'll have better luck using that in your shellac if you are mixing your own from flakes. 190 proof grain alcohol is ok as well.

I think your V case looks fine. I don't know why those things will turn dark like they do, I have one that's really turned dark. But I'm like you and like oak better on the darker side anyway. Golden oak was not a light as most people think it was. I've mixed up the asphaltum varnish, gold japan size and turpentine for the color. It looks really nice, but is darker than you'll expect it to be and does look like what you see behind your hardware and columns before you washed off the finish. I saw that machine when it came up for sale up north of Minneapolis, but I had just been up there the day before and really didn't feel like going right back up there again! I'm glad you got it sir. Earl.

Ah, thanks Earl. Never realized that spirit varnish was actually shellac based. It's always a good day when I learn something.

BTW, the Deft doesn't have a catalyst. It really gives a nice warm finish with a sheen that's not really a gloss. Jerry's pics are what the finish really does look like. My understanding is that it's a favorite of guitar builders. Sure smells obnoxious, though, in my opinion, until it dries.

.

[tomb]

Nice job Jerry. I like the deft too. Do you spray it on?? Tom

[Jerry B.]

I like the deft too. Do you spray it on?? Tom

Yes, I generally use spray. It comes in gloss, semi-gloss, and satin. With this project I used satin and gently rubbed with 0000 steel wool after the last coat. Jerry

[Inigo]

What product is 'deft' lacquer or varnish, which can be sprayed? Interesting...