Don't know what this is, maybe YOU want it

[estott]

The 4-3 has what is called a Straight Exponential horn- while it isn't folded it has an exponential curve. I think some of the later models used a small folded horn. In any case the straight horn gives excellent results, just lacking the bass response of the larger models. Even with the straight horn the 4-3 could outperform a former top-of-the-line VV XVI.

[brianu]

The 4-3 has what is called a Straight Exponential horn- while it isn't folded it has an exponential curve. I think some of the later models used a small folded horn. In any case the straight horn gives excellent results, just lacking the bass response of the larger models. Even with the straight horn the 4-3 could outperform a former top-of-the-line VV XVI.

now I'm confused. I've got to find my books and check the illustrations of the different horn versions. I was certain that the 4-3's horn was multi-chambered, but it's straight? and considered orthophonic because of a curve (and I imagine the use of the orthophonic reproducer)?

[estott]

Earlier models of the Consolette / 4-3 (the machines are essentially the same machine with a redesigned case) had straight horns and the earliest were exposed with no grille cloth. I am pretty sure they later had a small folded horn but I don't know when it was introduced.
http://victor-victrola.com/4-3.htm

The Exponential horn is so named for the curve of the horn's profile. The horn does not have to be folded or chambered to be exponential, that is just a method of fitting a large horn into a small cabinet. Large straight or curved metal exponential horns were used for sound in movie theaters.

http://www.pc-cheats-codes.com/Rare-Wes ... 43887.html

Some theaters still use them- the Capitol Theater in Rome NY uses a 1940's- 50's horn speaker for showing old films, though they have stereo speakers for newer films.

[OrthoSean]

I agree that that is very high on the price scale for a 4-3. I have owned two and paid less than $100 for both. I had them when I was new to collecting though and got ird of them due to space issues. Now I wish I hadn't. There is one at auction tonight near me so maybe I will try to go and bid. Although I just bought a C-19 yesterday and had plans to pick up a VV-IX with a continuation top record cabinet today, so who knows?

less than a hundred for one of those I'd say is a steal (so, nice finds) and not typical of what they're typically selling/sold for (not terribly long ago I picked up a VV-XX for well under a thousand, but I would by no means consider that purchase in terms of setting a value on that model in general). I really think depending on condition, whether the motor and reproducer have been properly rebuilt, etc., that up to 450 for a 4-3 still is not excessive. although for an unrestored as-is example, I wouldn't want to pay more than 200 or possibly 300.

Exactly. You can't ever go by "what I bought this or that for" with most things. The market to buyers determines price, for example, I've got a beauty of a 4-3 here that I picked up and went through from the ground up and I'm asking $250 for it, which I think even in this current market is more than fair. They're great little machines. In nice shape and all done over, they're quite nice all around. They don't sound half bad, either! I'd keep it if I didn't have my hands full at this point, as it's a great machine, but with an 8-9, Credenza, 10-50 and soon an 8-4, it's a little pointless...

Sean

[brianu]

I agree that that is very high on the price scale for a 4-3. I have owned two and paid less than $100 for both. I had them when I was new to collecting though and got ird of them due to space issues. Now I wish I hadn't. There is one at auction tonight near me so maybe I will try to go and bid. Although I just bought a C-19 yesterday and had plans to pick up a VV-IX with a continuation top record cabinet today, so who knows?

less than a hundred for one of those I'd say is a steal (so, nice finds) and not typical of what they're typically selling/sold for (not terribly long ago I picked up a VV-XX for well under a thousand, but I would by no means consider that purchase in terms of setting a value on that model in general). I really think depending on condition, whether the motor and reproducer have been properly rebuilt, etc., that up to 450 for a 4-3 still is not excessive. although for an unrestored as-is example, I wouldn't want to pay more than 200 or possibly 300.

Exactly. You can't ever go by "what I bought this or that for" with most things. The market to buyers determines price, for example, I've got a beauty of a 4-3 here that I picked up and went through from the ground up and I'm asking $250 for it, which I think even in this current market is more than fair. They're great little machines. In nice shape and all done over, they're quite nice all around. They don't sound half bad, either! I'd keep it if I didn't have my hands full at this point, as it's a great machine, but with an 8-9, Credenza, 10-50 and soon an 8-4, it's a little pointless...

Sean

I thought that machine of yours was spoken for? if not, would you be able to bring it to the wayne show? in which case, I'll take it.

[OrthoSean]

I'll know at this time tomorrow if it is or not, Brian. A few people said they wanted it and didn't follow through, but somebody is coming to look tomorrow afternoon. If it isn't, it's yours and I'll bring it to Wayne gladly.

Sean

[gramophoneshane]

Isn't that the Victor equivalent of the HMV 157?

Visually, the horn appears to be smaller on the Victor, than a 157, but not having measured either I dont know for sure.

Just reading Uncle Vanya's post, it also appears the Victor has a "straight" horn, where as the 157 has an exponential horn dividing into 2 chambers, so I'd assume the 157 has far better bass responce.

I'm quite certain the 4-3 had an exponential horn. I used to have one. some early victor "orthophonic" machines did have a straight horn, though... the early granadas and the colony, for example. the only real real difference between the 4-3 and the 157, again, is the wood vs. metal horn construction.

It sounds like the horn designs are entirely different too.

[recordo]

I posted these photos somewhere else on this forum in regards to discussion on HMV 157 horns but as we're discussing the details, thought they might be useful here. Just after getting my 157 a couple of weeks ago, I took it apart to finally find out what sort of horn was inside -

[brianu]

It sounds like the horn designs are entirely different too.

yes, apparently, as was pointed out by estott a few posts above.

[Uncle Vanya]

Isn't that the Victor equivalent of the HMV 157?

Visually, the horn appears to be smaller on the Victor, than a 157, but not having measured either I dont know for sure.

Just reading Uncle Vanya's post, it also appears the Victor has a "straight" horn, where as the 157 has an exponential horn dividing into 2 chambers, so I'd assume the 157 has far better bass responce.

I'm quite certain the 4-3 had an exponential horn. I used to have one. some early victor "orthophonic" machines did have a straight horn, though... the early granadas and the colony, for example. the only real real difference between the 4-3 and the 157, again, is the wood vs. metal horn construction.

No.


I have owned more than a dozen of this model, in every variation, early and late (and even a couple examples of the non-orthophonic 4-1, a cheap standard mechanism in a Consolette cabinet, made for export.) All of the Consolettes and 4-3's were fitted with a straight horn, not a re-entrant.
Even so, this is a remarkable machine, bright, forward and LOUD, though somewhat lacking in bass response.


The 4-3, the Consolette, the Colony, and the early Granada all were fitted with the "Western Electric" (so called in internal Victor literature) EXPONENTIAL straight horn. This horn was used on the 4-3 until the end of production in 1928, and on the Japanese version of this machine until 1937 or so.

In late 1926 the Colony was discontinued and replaced in the product line with the 4-7, which was fitted with a small bifurcated exponential horn. At about this time the Granada was modified, and fitted with a similar horn. The Consolette was at this time improved by being fitted with a 2-spring motor and a grille, but it retained the old horn. IN 1927 the entire design of the 4-3 was changed, but the straight horn was retained. The 4-7 was replaced by the 4-20, and the Granada ( now known as the 4-4) was replaced with the new 4-40.