Featured Phonograph № 66

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phonogfp
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Re: Featured Phonograph № 66

Post by phonogfp »

That earlier decal was the first thing I noticed. I think it's most unlikely that the last of the earlier cabinets had the earlier decal, and the first of the newer cabinets had the newer decal. Phonograph manufacturing a century ago just didn't work that precisely. It makes far more sense that the first of the newer cabinets used the remaining stock of the older decal. What's the serial number on your cabinet?

George P.

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Re: Featured Phonograph № 66

Post by gramophone78 »

'73,I wish I knew more about the Victrola line.However,from the pics you posted.It is a sweet looking machine :D.

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Re: Featured Phonograph № 66

Post by Valecnik »

antique1973 wrote:
Zeppy wrote:Do you know if the lid is original to the machine? Didn't they switch to the drop the "victor" in the lid decal when they went from VTLA to XVI?

And I have to agree with about the combination of gold and mahagony. Much more striking than oak.

Zeppy this was indeed a subject for consideration when I purchased the cabinet.
According to the information, this cabinet style should have the later
version of the Victrola decal. What is interesting to note is the very closely
matching patina between the lid and the cabinet. Each cabinet goes through
very different conditions throughout its life and this results in slightly
different appearances in the wood patina. I came to the conclusion that if
the lid was swapped, it must have happened very early on in order to match
so well. In the end I felt it did not alter the value substantially and I
am also fond of the older decal. :)
Of course one can never know with 100% certaintly but the lid certainly seems to match well, (patina, coloring) at least from the pictures...

Very nice machine!

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Re: Featured Phonograph № 66

Post by Valecnik »

phonogfp wrote:
Jerry B. wrote:Wonderful machine! There is something truly elegant about the big early Victrola XVI. I love all the early Victrolas because each model is unique to itself. I know Victor really kicked into high gear in sales when they standardized cabinet design but there is something special about a spider leg X or a Queen Anne XIV or the L door XVI.

The early Victrolas sold in fairly small numbers and many were cannibalized by early collectors because the Victrolas shared parts with contemporary horn models. Think about it... you'll see quite a few Victor horn machines before you see a table model Victrola XII.

Jerry Blais
Jerry, I agree with you. I've always liked the pre-1914 Victrolas for the same reasons. And as for "early collectors" cannibalizing early Victrolas to complete external-horn Victors, I know of at least one who still does. :roll: Anything for a buck, I guess...



George P.
I remember when I first started collecting I got an L door XVI. One of the main selling points pointed out to me was that "it's got that Victor VI motor", i.e. if you need to complete a VI, it's a steal!

Victor V and VI sold for around $75-125 dollars later on while the early VTLAs and victrola XVI sold for $200. It does not seem logical at all to dismantle something much rarer in order to complete something which was more common and plentiful I agree.
:monkey:

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antique1973
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Re: Featured Phonograph № 66

Post by antique1973 »

phonogfp wrote:That earlier decal was the first thing I noticed. I think it's most unlikely that the last of the earlier cabinets had the earlier decal, and the first of the newer cabinets had the newer decal. Phonograph manufacturing a century ago just didn't work that precisely. It makes far more sense that the first of the newer cabinets used the remaining stock of the older decal. What's the serial number on your cabinet?

George P.

Unfortunately the replacement cabinet was missing the plate so I had to move the plate from
my "distressed" cabinet. I also speculated that perhaps the factory installed the older
lid to use up the remaining stocks during the transitional period. Of course it cannot be
verified either way. I attached a picture of the cabinet pre-howard's treatment to give you
an idea of the wood patina in its "native environment".
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antique1973
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Re: Featured Phonograph № 66

Post by antique1973 »

gramophone78 wrote:'73,I wish I knew more about the Victrola line.However,from the pics you posted.It is a sweet looking machine :D.

Thanks G78! :)

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antique1973
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Re: Featured Phonograph № 66

Post by antique1973 »

Valecnik wrote:
antique1973 wrote:
Zeppy wrote:Do you know if the lid is original to the machine? Didn't they switch to the drop the "victor" in the lid decal when they went from VTLA to XVI?

And I have to agree with about the combination of gold and mahagony. Much more striking than oak.

Zeppy this was indeed a subject for consideration when I purchased the cabinet.
According to the information, this cabinet style should have the later
version of the Victrola decal. What is interesting to note is the very closely
matching patina between the lid and the cabinet. Each cabinet goes through
very different conditions throughout its life and this results in slightly
different appearances in the wood patina. I came to the conclusion that if
the lid was swapped, it must have happened very early on in order to match
so well. In the end I felt it did not alter the value substantially and I
am also fond of the older decal. :)
Of course one can never know with 100% certaintly but the lid certainly seems to match well, (patina, coloring) at least from the pictures...

Very nice machine!

Thanks Bruce! I have to agree, this will likely remain a mystery without any solid
evidence of where the lid came from. :?:

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phonogfp
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Re: Featured Phonograph № 66

Post by phonogfp »

[quote="antique1973]
Unfortunately the replacement cabinet was missing the plate so I had to move the plate from
my "distressed" cabinet. I also speculated that perhaps the factory installed the older
lid to use up the remaining stocks during the transitional period. Of course it cannot be
verified either way. I attached a picture of the cabinet pre-howard's treatment to give you
an idea of the wood patina in its "native environment".[/quote]

Your cabinet & lid certainly look as if they have always been together. Careful examination of the hinge screws might possibly have offered more hints. It is most unfortunate that the original data plate has been lost, as this transitional period (if indeed there was one) could have been partially documented. 73, I'd suggest inserting a note inside your Victrola indicating that the data plate is not original to the machine, so that a future researcher is not misled by its serial number.

There's a lesson to be learned here... :cry:

George P.

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Re: Featured Phonograph № 66

Post by Zeppy »

antique1973 wrote:
phonogfp wrote:That earlier decal was the first thing I noticed. I think it's most unlikely that the last of the earlier cabinets had the earlier decal, and the first of the newer cabinets had the newer decal. Phonograph manufacturing a century ago just didn't work that precisely. It makes far more sense that the first of the newer cabinets used the remaining stock of the older decal. What's the serial number on your cabinet?

George P.

Unfortunately the replacement cabinet was missing the plate so I had to move the plate from
my "distressed" cabinet. I also speculated that perhaps the factory installed the older
lid to use up the remaining stocks during the transitional period. Of course it cannot be
verified either way. I attached a picture of the cabinet pre-howard's treatment to give you
an idea of the wood patina in its "native environment".
Ahh...this does explain some of my confusion about the serial number listed (which was well beyond what could have been considered a "transitional period." My understanding has always been that there are documented instances of other odd mixes of parts during transitions, as Victor tried to use up old stock, so it is entirely plaussible that it came out of the factory that way. I

And I do like the old label too...just because it is something different.

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Re: Featured Phonograph № 66

Post by Retrograde »

A few times I've noticed on Victor and HMV machines that the slots in the screws heads in the lid hing are all lined up the same way if the lid has not been off the machine. It's not a scientific observation or certain proof, but I've noticed before.

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