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 Post subject: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:25 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:54 am
Posts: 39
hello all, i reside in Singapore and recently i found a HMV 102e gramophone in a friend's storeroom, no idea how old is it but it sure looks OLD and in poor condition. it doesn't work so i took it home with me with the intention of fixing it (i like tinkering with mechanical stuff). i have no previous experiences with gramophones, but i did some reading online and slowly took the gramophone apart and found that the speed controller (the one that controls the speed of the governor) was slightly corroded and was stuck so i oiled it up and it seems like everything works for now, i've attached some pictures below if anyone could help me along with it.

the soundbox is badly rusted and there's a needle that's broken off inside and i can't get it out. i can't seem to find out what model of soundbox this is on any website, does anyone know? I did more research and went to ebay and bought a HMV 5B soundbox that is on its way here now, hopefully it works and i'll have a complete machine.

problem now is that i don't have any records to test it on when the soundbox does arrive...i see plenty of 78rpm records on ebay but they cost a bomb to ship to singapore, maybe i'll look around the flea markets here and perhaps i'll find something...

i have some questions for the old hands at restoration:

- the case of the gramophone is leather/leatherette? it is faded and dirty, what are the products available to make it black and clean again? black kiwi? pledge? etc?

- what sort of needles should i be looking for? steel? a certain brand? i saw this on ebay, would this be a good choice? -> http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360315299535&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_2627wt_1139

- i printed out a strobe disc and it seems like this gramophone only goes at +-78rpm when i set the speed selector to the 'fast' setting, can this be corrected? or is this due to the motor being neglected for such a long time?

- the tone arm is slightly corroded and rusted up, how can i polish it to a shine again?

- would a 5B soundbox fit on this? i already bought one and it occurred to me that it might be for a different model!

thanks!


Attachments:
File comment: soundbox
IMG_0717[2].JPG
IMG_0717[2].JPG [ 2.18 MiB | Viewed 2006 times ]
File comment: panel
DSCN7409.JPG
DSCN7409.JPG [ 4.08 MiB | Viewed 2006 times ]
File comment: overview
DSCN7408.JPG
DSCN7408.JPG [ 4.09 MiB | Viewed 2006 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:57 am 
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Victor VI
I have good days...this might not be one of them
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:23 pm
Posts: 3499
Location: Albany NY
The soundbox is not a good one, probably not worth fixing.

Use black shoe polish on the outside of the case- it will help.

I do not know what metal polish is available in Singapore but Nevr-Dull Magic Wadding will reduce the corrosion http://www.nevrdull.com/ - but the arm will never be smooth and shiny unless it is polished and replated, which might cost more than the value of the machine. MAAS polish is also very good http://www.maasinc.com/


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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:42 am 
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Victor IV
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"Did you ever stop to think that pleasure is a duty?" (Victor sales pamphlet)
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:19 pm
Posts: 1155
Welcome to the forum!
The 5B soundbox is exactly what you need for this machine.
Shoe polish, as mentioned earlier, will help the look of the exterior. I've used GoJo non-pumice hand cleaner applied with 2-inch paintbrush to inner and outer surfaces and let it set a couple minutes before wiping off with a rag.
I've attached your picture to show how you might do further adjustment for your speed control without going to too much trouble:
Attachment:
File comment: HMV 192E motorboard
DSCN7409.JPG
DSCN7409.JPG [ 109.44 KiB | Viewed 1980 times ]


The motor governor pad position is adjusted by the movement of the contact point circled in blue. The speed control linkage is held in place by the two screws circled in orange. The holes are elongated, and when the screws are loosened the plate can be slid either way to make adjustments as needed. Your plate might not have much further distance to make your indicator be accurate right with the "78" mark, but you can probably get pretty close. Make sure all the contact and pivot points are clean, and
be sure the spring is wound down all the way before starting the adustments.
Bob
"Comparison is the thief of joy" Theodore Roosevelt


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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:49 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:54 am
Posts: 39
hi, thanks for your reply! i will try some black kiwi shoe polish on it soon...

i was typing this message halfway when barnettrp21122 posted his, so anyway yeah i did figure that by adjusting those screws in your picture i could change the speed of the governor...i realized something during that day when i stripped it down that when i pressed the 'switch' (the one you labelled in blue) all the way to the right (fastest speed setting) that the governor would spin so fast such that the metal ballast of the governor would actually expand outwards and knock against the motor cover...i guess i'm not supposed to ever set it to such a fast speed?


by the way, i measured the diameter of the turntable and it seems like it is 10"? a gramophone like this would therefore only play records of a maximum size of 10" is this correct?

thanks for all the help so far i really appreciate it!


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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:51 am 
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Victor V
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm
Posts: 2507
According to the date code (B/18) on the ID tag, your machine was made in 1954.
I'd glue down as much loose rexine as possible, and use a good quality wax shoe polish to even out the colour of the rexine & give it a nice sheen. I use Kiwi myself. Before applying the Kiwi, wipe the case down with a soft damp cloth to remove any loose dirt & grime, and allow to dry.
The metal work will be chrome plated, and should respond fairly well to a metal polish such as Brasso.
You may even have to use a very fine steelwool with light pressure to apply the Brasso, but being chrome it shouldn't scratch easily, and should shine up fine.
The correct soundbox for your machine is the HMV 5b pictured below. I've bought most of my spare 5b's from Ebay India, as they often go for far less than you'll pay elsewhere.
With the correct soundbox, this machine is considered the best sounding portable ever made, so it's well worth restoring.

BTW: Your 102 will play 12" discs as well, provided the motor has been properly cleaned and lubricated. They're actually a good little motor for their size.


Attachments:
HMV 5b 002.JPG
HMV 5b 002.JPG [ 691.73 KiB | Viewed 1972 times ]
HMV 5b 003.JPG
HMV 5b 003.JPG [ 598.9 KiB | Viewed 1972 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:12 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm
Posts: 2507
ptjw wrote:
the governor would spin so fast such that the metal ballast of the governor would actually expand outwards and knock against the motor cover...i guess i'm not supposed to ever set it to such a fast speed?




Ah...no. That can cause the flat metal spring the weights are attached to on the governor to break.


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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:50 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:54 am
Posts: 39
huh I did buy my soundbox from a seller in India on eBay, wonder why they have so many soundboxes in that part of the world, he said it'll take 20days+ to arrive due to customs in india, so that gives me lots of time to clean up the gramophone..I'll start with some fine steel wool on all the metal parts, they're really badly rusted up as you can see from the pictures..

still having trouble finding 78rpm records to be shipped here.. :p


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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:25 pm 
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Victor III
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:47 pm
Posts: 793
I bought a 5b from a guy in Allahabad, Uttar Pradesh India several years ago. He lists a lot of reproducers. The one I bought is in very good condition. Hopefully you're will arrive soon.

Good luck with the restoration of your 102. It's a good machine.


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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:43 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:54 am
Posts: 39
its the same guy from allahabad...i bought it from there too for $25USD exc shipping! he has 100% feedback so i guess it'll work..

also i asked in my first post, what needles would be suitable for this player? i had a link i found on ebay for medium tone needles that're pretty cheap to ship here : http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360315299535&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_2627wt_1139

are these (generally) suitable for playing a wide range of 78's?


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 Post subject: Re: need help restoring a HMV 102e
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:10 pm 
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Victor IV
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"Did you ever stop to think that pleasure is a duty?" (Victor sales pamphlet)
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:19 pm
Posts: 1155
ptjw wrote:
its the same guy from allahabad...i bought it from there too for $25USD exc shipping! he has 100% feedback so i guess it'll work..

also i asked in my first post, what needles would be suitable for this player? i had a link i found on ebay for medium tone needles that're pretty cheap to ship here : http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360315299535&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_2627wt_1139

are these (generally) suitable for playing a wide range of 78's?


Cyber-tigger is a dependable dealer and I can recommend his product. I would email him asking his opinion of medium versus soft needles (if he sells them) and go with what he recommends. I find a soft tone needle works just fine, especially when playing most 1925-1935 vintage recordings. Any steel needle is designed to play the harder-surfaced shellac 78s, and these are generally the ones issued earlier than the 1940's. European pressings may be different; I'm not too familiar with them.
I currently use more bamboo and and cactus needles myself, but that introduces a whole separate catagory of cutters or sharpeners you need to keep the points sharp. The up side is that record wear is reduced. The down side is that they require more fiddling with than merely tossing them out like a one-use steel needle. They don't work well with worn records.
Hope this helps.
Bob
"Comparison is the thief of joy" Theodore Roosevelt


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