need help restoring a HMV 102e

[ptjw]

i emailed ken priestly and he has replied me that he does have the parts i need thanks andreas! and he sends his regards to you as well

i completely dismantled the soundbox and i dug out the old hardened rubber from the back, hopefully he can supply me with a new piece of rubber that fits just fine..

[ptjw]

quick question: can the tonearm be removed from its base? i'm guessing that there're ball bearing inside that are in serious need of cleaning because the tonearm is not turning smoothly, i managed to remove the stopper such that the tonearm can spin 360, but i can't get the base open...

could someone who has experience with this give me some directions? i can't see any screws or anything holding the base to the arm

[barnettrp21122]

It looks to me like the arm is held in the base by a threaded retaining ring with three notches. You'd probably use a spanner wrench of some sort to unscrew it under normal circumstances. Before going to all that trouble I'd suggest running some WD-40 throughout the assembly and blot out the excess. I'd be worried that the whole thing might crumble or be bent beyond repair if you try taking it apart.
Here's a picture of the underside:

Good luck!
Bob

[ptjw]

i decided against trying to open it up, i just poured a generous amount of machine oil into the join and spun the base around a few times and all the gunk inside freed itself. the tone arm is a lot smoother now.



on another matter regarding bumpy springs, i read on another forum that they put the motor under the sun to soften the grease so that it works better, does this really work?

[OrthoFan]

on another matter regarding bumpy springs, i read on another forum that they put the motor under the sun to soften the grease so that it works better, does this really work?

I've never heard of that. It might serve as a quick fix, but it won't cure the problem in the long run, and the spring will probably start bumping soon again -- or worse. It's best to remove the barrel, open the end cap, clean the spring of the solidified grease, and apply fresh grease.

If you don't feel comfortable about removing the coiled spring after opening the cap, you can probably get most or all of the old grease out by soaking the barrel in a solvent. A few people I've known have recommended kerosene.

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Looking at your photos above, I'm not surprised that the sound box does not perform well. The gaskets look like they've been cut from a cereal box. They certainly are too thin to hold the diaphragm snugly, and provide an air-tight seal, which is absolutely essential for proper performance. Obviously, this was repaired at some point by someone who didn't give a damn about sound quality.

Speaking of which, you should check out this page which compares the HMV 102 with other top of the line portables of the period --

http://www.myvintagetv.com/updatepages1 ... HMV102.htm

Main portables page -- http://www.myvintagetv.com/updatepages1 ... tables.htm -- click on image to call up information about each machine.

The person who posted the page, Carsten, is one of the most knowledgeable collectors around and is well known for getting the best performance possible out of any acoustic gramophone. His contact information is provided on the above page.

HTH,
Ortho_Fan

[ptjw]

i've seen that webpage before, i used it to compare with my gramophone to see if there were any missing parts

the soundbox was crap, the only upside is that it cost me $10 USD, i have ordered replacement parts from Ken Priestly and he'll be shipping them to me sometime next week. so not only am i restoring a 102 i am also restoring a 5b! he is providing me with a new diaphragm, a pair of felt gaskets and a new rubber connector that fits a 102 tonearm.

from Ortho_Fan: If you don't feel comfortable about removing the coiled spring after opening the cap, you can probably get most or all of the old grease out by soaking the barrel in a solvent. A few people I've known have recommended kerosene.

i have removed the springs before, twice in fact...once to clean it out completely (50 years of dirt and grime clogged in there but the motor could still move!), i put in new grease and installed it again but it had skidding and bumping noises so i opened the motor AGAIN to add more lubricant. it is a little better now but there is still the occasional skidding sound when the motor is turning. i don't think i can add anymore grease/oil without making things worse so i won't be opening it again. maybe if i keep winding it and letting it run every now and then the grease would be spread evenly in the coil.

[gramophoneshane]

If the spring wasn't thoroughly clean, a few patches of old grease along the spring can turn sticky with the new grease, preventing the coils from moving against each other properly.
If the spring was cleaned properly, then all I can think of is the grease you've used isn't suitable for this application??
Graphite grease is probably the best to use, and everyone seems to have their own favorite grease type, but I've been mostly using various name-brand "L2" multi-purpose lithium greases for the last 30 years with no adverse affects.
But provided the spring & barrel are clean, and theres plenty of lubrication, there really no reason a spring should continue to make those noises, unless there are burrs in the barrel catching the edge of the spring as it passes.

[ptjw]

my main problem now is more of the consistency of the motor than anything else. using a 50hz strobe disc i am able to set a speed where the lines stand still on 78rpm, but i don't know if its the motor or the light or just my eyes but the lines keep moving forwards, then stay still, then move forwards again. then again i realise that the strobe disc is just a rough guide to setting the correct speed and not an exact one, can't test anything now because i stripped down my soundbox while awaiting the parts...

i did have an issue with inconsistent speed before, but i assume it is because the tonearm was not turning smooth and also because my soundbox was not at the correct angle (i didn't have the brass pin so i roughly taped the soundbox at an angle i thought was correct)

when the parts come i will test it again, if the speed is still inconsistent i would assume it is due to the springs and i will strip it down and wash it thoroughly with kerosene this time.

i noticed a slight rattling sound that comes now and then when the motor is running. i narrowed it down to the governor and realized i gave it a little too much slack horizontally. but when i adjusted it, the sound disappeared, but because the governor's gears were firm against the motor's gears, the turntable doesn't move when i wind it up and needs a little push to start moving...


so many many problems from such machine the size of a suitcase

[gramophoneshane]

I'd have to agree with you there!
Not only did you get a rare 5b that fits an earlier tonearm, but now you're having problems with an HMV 270D motor, which remained in production for almost 30 yrs because of it's efficiency & reliability.
I'm starting to wonder if something isn't bent or missing. The motor should be easily adjusted to run at a constant speed and without any help starting.

[ptjw]

some new developments:

i managed to borrow a tachometer and used it on the turntable with interesting results. apparently this 102 is able to keep up a steady 78.0rpm for 4 and a half minutes give or take 0.4 rpm (don't know if this number is due to inaccuracies with the tachometer). after 4 and a half minutes the knocking sound kicks in and the rpm changes erratically from 77 to 76 to 78 to 75 etc etc before winding down a minute later (nearly 6 minutes turning!) correct me if i'm wrong but a 12" record holds about 5mins worth of sound? this is good enough to get through one record i suppose..

i had a record of J S Bach, 'Air' (conducted by someone i forgot the name..), and i played it the previous time with the busted soundbox and kept hearing the pitch changing and it sounded like the entire orchestra was out of tune and assumed it was due to the inconsistency of the motor but now i realize it MIGHT be the soundbox causing the problem. so my question now is would a leaky (non-airtight) soundbox cause the pitch to sway? maybe the diaphragm expands and contracts slowly and causes the variations in pitch, i don't know...


i was reading back on the previous posts and saw that someone mentioned that the 5b soundbox that i had was meant to fit the 101 tonearm. i assumed he meant the rubber connector, but then it suddenly occurred to me that perhaps even the pot metal back of my soundbox could have a smaller hole meant for a 101 and the new rubber connector i bought might not even fit the soundbox. i measured the diameter of the connector and found that it is 2.9cm (1.14in), could a kind soul measure his/her 5b soundbox and tell me if this is correct?

thanks to all!