Tungstone Drag

[Operafan]

I have a nice HMV 102 portable, which plays 78s at the proper pitch with steel needles when the speed control is all the way to the right (fastest). When I use tungs-tone needles, it is off pitch (too slow) even after the needle is "worn-in." Does anyone see a similar effect? Is there a description of how to adjust the governor of an HMV 102 anywhere? Or do I need a new spring?

Jeff

[Swing Band Heaven]

I have found that tungstone needles play fine and don't "drag" when used on disks from the late teens and 1920's, however they do "drag excessively when used on worn disks or if I play much later 78rpm disks. I don't seem to suffer the same problem with steel - not sure why.

S-B-H

[gramophoneshane]

With regards to having the speed control up all the way, do you know which model motor is in your 102?
I take it you need to have the speed control up all the way to achieve 78rpm?
If you cant see an adjustment screw on the governor leather arm, then you'll probably have to run the motor down & move the governor along by one tooth of the worm gear, so the governor friction plate moves further away from the leather. This will allow the motor to run at higher revs, which can then be adjusted down by the speed control.
If you loosen off the bearing closest to the friction plate, draw it out off the bearing pin, then tilt the governor towards you just enough to jump a tooth, push the bearing back onto the pin, tighten, the re-adjust the other bearing to take up the slack, it should be fixed.
You might be able to discontect the speed control arm from the motor, back the speed control back and reattach, or make an adjustment to the speed control linkage arm itself, but this will only work if there's enough room left for the governor leather arm to move further than it does now.

With regards to the needles, I still think the small point puts a lot more pressure on the groove, but apparently that's wrong. I guess it could have more to do with more friction being produced by the harder metal, but either way, I still believe tungstone/tungstyle needles are bad bad bad for your records

[Swing Band Heaven]

I still believe tungstone/tungstyle needles are bad bad bad for your records

Yep I would agree with that. Stick to steel or thorns / fibre for longer lasting records

[Operafan]

Thanks for the info on adjusting the speed control. I'll try it when I have a chance to dismember (I mean disassemble, I hope) the 102 in a few weeks. Meanwhile will also see if fiber needles work okay in it. The problem was most noticeable on later 78s and very early and worn 78s.

Jeff

[gramophoneshane]

That is more a sign of a weak spring. It doesn't necessarily mean a new spring will solve the problem though, as these are only tiny single spring motors we're talking about. It should be plenty strong enough to play a 40s/50s record in excellent condition though, otherwise they wouldn't have been still making & selling them in 1960.

[Operafan]

I finally got around to adjusting the HMV 102 mentioned in this thread, and the problem turned out to be pretty easily fixed. I took off the turntable and began unscrewing the motorboard when I noticed that the speed conrol was fastened to the motorboard by two small screws which left a lot of play in the final position of the speed control mechanism. Loosening them and then repositioning the speed control did the trick. I used a small laser tachometer and found that where I was getting 76rpm before at the highest speed setting and 0 rpm at the slow setting, I now have 77.2rpm at the dead center setting.

With this correction, I find that the tungstone needles do not drag at all, even on some pretty rough early records. I'll try the beeswax suggestion in another recent thread for ones that still cause problems.

Jeff