NEEDLE TINS

[PatrickMeyhoff]

Thanks a lot James it was very helpful

[Marco Gilardetti]

...and here, thanks to the Acts of our coquettish but nonetheless fierce Weird Needles Exchange Club (whose funny pictures are unfortunately lost, as with most others on this board) you can take a look at how this needle type looked like.

If you want my (unsolicited) educated opinion, I have yet to devise if the mallet blow that shaped the small central section as a cross had any real effect on sound reproduction. While this is definitely the case with many needles of unusual shape (the ondulette or the syrena just to name a few), it is not so definitely the case with Condor needles. Either way, the writing on the shaft (very unusual for HMV needles) also seem to confirm that they were just a premium product, more complex to make and hence sold at a premium price, aimed to customers willing to pay an extra for a product that would stand out.

[jamiegramo]

...and here, thanks to the Acts of our coquettish but nonetheless fierce Weird Needles Exchange Club (whose funny pictures are unfortunately lost, as with most others on this board) you can take a look at how this needle type looked like.

If you want my (unsolicited) educated opinion, I have yet to devise if the mallet blow that shaped the small central section as a cross had any real effect on sound reproduction. While this is definitely the case with many needles of unusual shape (the ondulette or the syrena just to name a few), it is not so definitely the case with Condor needles. Either way, the writing on the shaft (very unusual for HMV needles) also seem to confirm that they were just a premium product, more complex to make and hence sold at a premium price, aimed to customers willing to pay an extra for a product that would stand out.

Marco, do you know how these were marketed? Were they supposed to be extra loud tone? Or perhaps the finer steel gave better reproduction?

[Marco Gilardetti]

Good question indeed. I never happened to see a period ad or brochure that - generic claims of "excellent sound" aside - clearly disclosed which the supposed virtues of this special needle were (which in turn substantiated my opinion that it didn't really had any).

The multi tin previously displayed in this thread, by placing them on top of all seemed to imply that they were considered to be extra loud; moreover they also shared the blue colour that was tipical of extra loud needles by HMV. However, it can also be argued that they were placed on top simply beacause they were the premium item inside a multi tin that contained otherwise perfectly normal needles, hence they had to be highlighted in some way for commercial reasons.

However, on other multi tins by the German branch of HMV they are located mid way between the full and soft tone, thus replacing the well known half tone of HMV (that is here downgraded to piano, still in its typical yellow colour). I'm attaching three pictures of such multi tin; in the latter it can be seen that, despite the mess, needles identical to those pictured in my previous post are still in the compartment - so there's no doubt that we're talking about the very same needle type.

My personal take is yet another: that they locate halfway between full and loud tone, especially due to the central cross section, which stiffens the shaft a bit. Soundwise, they play undoubtably well, but not differently by all other HMV needles, which were always of top quality. All in all, as already said, just a "premium" product for the distinguished (but perhaps not too much discerning) customer.

[epigramophone]

I never set out to collect needle tins. Most of these came with machines purchased at auction :

[Inigo]

Personally, I found the Condor needles too harsh and loud, and they leave that terrible black residue... signals of too strong record wear. I have never used them again.

[Starkton]

Apparently, the Condor needle, like the Melba needle, was pressed from a type of steel that was tougher and more wear-resistant than that used for the other needle types of the Gramophone Co., which were sold 40 to 60 per cent cheaper.

The Condor needle should therefore not wear away at the record material as usual, but instead remove the residue left over from the pressing process. Obviously, this put more strain on the groove. This is why the manufacturer recommended using this needle type only the first two times after buying a new record.

I am always surprised at how little information is known about these needles, even though the tins they were sold in are eagerly collected. (Apart from the fact that little historical data is available on most of the tins themselves.)

[epigramophone]

I am always surprised at how little information is known about these needles, even though the tins they were sold in are eagerly collected. (Apart from the fact that little historical data is available on most of the tins themselves.)

One exception is the needles and tins produced by G&T, HMV and Victor. These are well documented and illustrated in "The Collectors Guide to 'His Master's Voice' Nipper Souvenirs" (EMI Group Archive Trust 1997) which devotes almost 70 pages to them.

The company announced the Melba Compressed Steel Needle in May 1905, and claimed that every point was examined at the factory. It sold at 1/6d a tin, compared with 9d for the standard needle. It was phased out in late 1915 when supplies of the tins were exhausted.

[Starkton]

"The Collectors Guide to 'His Master's Voice' Nipper Souvenirs" also says little about the needles themselves.

[Marco Gilardetti]

I'm afraid there may be some confusion between the various incarnations that the needles marketed as "Condor" have had. For instance, they were later also marketed as long playing needles playing 16 sides. I also have serious doubts as to whether they were no longer available after 1915.