A serious question on a sensitive topic

[KCW]

I occasionally see cylinder records listed as “coon records”. This is an obviously racist and insensitive term, but what does this exactly refer to?

I’m asking seriously because I would like to know. Are these traditionally African American traditional music of the era? If so, were they ever recorded by African American artists?

I would LOVE to discover that there were African American artists recorded on early cylinder records. Do any such exist?

Can anyone out there expand on this? Thank you for any information you can provide.

[FellowCollector]

George W. Johnson was a black American who recorded a number of 'coon' songs beginning as early as 1890 according to written accounts. The term apparently evolved over many decades beginning in the 1700's as a shortened reference for raccoon and thereafter many different meanings were assigned to the term culminating during the Civil War era as a reference to a Black person.

[Ortho4-7]

From what I’ve gleaned, they were generally written by white composers for white audiences, usually performed by white performers in blackface minstrel shows and intended to reinforce a white middle-class world view that put them on the top, and everyone else beneath. There were indeed a few black composers and performers who contributed to the genre and recorded on cylinders-such as George W. Johnson and Ernest Hogan-but they were broadly criticized within the black community for selling out and perpetuating negative stereotypes about their community at a time when their civil rights were under attack by post-reconstruction Jim Crow laws (itself named for a popular minstrel character), lynch mobs, and the return of the Klan. Musically, these songs are of little merit (generally pale imitations of ragtime and other black musical forms), and serve as a chilling reminder of the social climate of the early 20th century.


Outside of this idiom, it’s my understanding that only a few black performers and composers got any opportunities to record in the cylinder era. The most notable would be Williams and Walker, Wilbur Sweatman, and the Fisk Jubilee Singers. A few rags by Scott Joplin and James Scott also made their way onto cylinders and early discs, albeit in arranged and truncated forms. It wasn’t until the 1920’s that record companies began allowing and promoting black artists, albeit as “race records”, and the careers of scores of influential black artists were launched.

[Indestructible]

You can't apply todays views and modern opinions to historic terms or titles of music.

[PeterF]

You sure as hell can.

And should.

In my decades in this hobby I’ve come across plenty of people who try to use “historical artifact” as a protective smokescreen for old racist stuff.

Don’t. Be clear with yourself about what it is, and treat it accordingly.

One can look at any number of terrible old things, ranging from stuff like ads with doctors recommending a brand of cigarette, to confederate banknotes, to an old KKK robe found in a thrift store wardrobe, to slave ship manifests, to auction block leg manacles. Where is the point where we are to not just shake our heads while chuckling “different times…” and instead be offended or outraged?

Sure, listen to the stuff and learn about it, but then think real hard about whether it belongs in your house.

[Marc Hildebrant]

These records spanned a range from very racist to early blues.

An out and out rejection of these songs is wrong, without a careful study of them. For example, Al Bernald sang some songs that used terms regarding black people that were very offensive, let, he was a friend and mentored by W.C. Handy.

Marc

[phonogal]

Erasing history doesn't change history. This has been discussed before with some collectors saying these cylinders/records should be destroyed. Destroying coon song cylinders and tearing down statues does not rewrite history. Acknowledging our history both good and bad is healthy and can change our future.

[PeterF]

Well, that didn’t take long. As I said..

In my decades in this hobby I’ve come across plenty of people who try to use “historical artifact” as a protective smokescreen for old racist stuff.



Nobody said anything about destroying anything.

But we preserve these for what purpose, exactly?

Put examples in museums alongside your confederate and nazi memorabilia and kkk robes and statues of racist insurrectionists, and don’t delude yourself into believing that you are a caretaker of some perverse sacred history for future generations. The contents of Jeffrey Dahmer’s fridge were also historically important, but have they been carefully preserved for future generations, too?

[gramophone-georg]

Well, that didn’t take long. As I said..

In my decades in this hobby I’ve come across plenty of people who try to use “historical artifact” as a protective smokescreen for old racist stuff.



Nobody said anything about destroying anything.

But we preserve these for what purpose, exactly?

Put examples in museums alongside your confederate and nazi memorabilia and kkk robes and statues of racist insurrectionists, and don’t delude yourself into believing that you are a caretaker of some perverse sacred history for future generations. The contents of Jeffrey Dahmer’s fridge were also historically important, but have they been carefully preserved for future generations, too?

You and I agree on most everything, but not entirely on this.
The intent is right and just but it's a slippery slope to judge the morality of others for not measuring up to your level of outrage. After all, a feeling of moral superiority and outrage is what led to things like Naziism and slavery in the first place. My own feeling is that we shouldn't bury this stuff. Doing so not only makes us forget how crappy it is, it also makes it tasty forbidden fruit to all the wrong people.

As to whether it belongs in your house... well, the same could be said for booze. My opinion is that if it affects your mood in a bad way and turns you into an [a-hole], it probably shouldn't be there. As to cancel culture, well... I'm a bigger fan of "I may not agree with what to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" than "I will NOT TOLERATE intolerance!"

Your mileage may vary.
And, just for the record (see what I did there?), I knew Jeffrey Dahmer. Not really by choice. And no, not from prison, either.

And that, as Forrest Gump said, is all I have to say about THAT.

[phonogal]

As much as some refuse it, we are all free to have an opinion. You are free to have yours and I am free to have mine. Thank God that is still true. Have a wonderful evening.