rjberns

[rjberns]

Please help. I have a Victrola VV-XI Ser# 343877 G . It has a Sonora Super Fine Soundbox on it that is in need of rebuilding but I can not find info on it. Was this Victrola sold with this reproducer or is it an add-on? The Sonora is stamped made on July 2nd, 1918 which seems to be when my Victrola XI was made. Can someone tell me anything about this Sonora or who rebuilds them? If not, can soumeone tell me if a Victrola No.2 Reproducer will work in its place for I can find one of those?

[OrthoFan]

Your VV-XI dates from 1917, -- see: http://www.victor-victrola.com/XI.htm -- and would probably have been shipped with a Victor Exhibition sound box. Sonora was another brand made by a different manufacturer, altogether. At some point, the original Victor sound box most likely went missing, and the Sonora sound box was substituted.

A Victor No. 2 sound box will also fit your Victrola's tone arm.

There should be nothing special about restoring a Sonora sound box, compared to any other type. Normally, it's just a matter of replacing the gaskets and/or diaphragm if it's damaged. But, if it's in restorable condition, you might consider using it as a trade-in towards a Victor Exhibition sound box, or a Victor No. 2 sound box.

A number of repair shops specializing in sound box repair are listed on this page -- http://www.proaxis.com/~settlet/record/links.html Scroll down to the "Accessories/Restoration " section toward the bottom of the page to see the list.

Many members of this forum have their favorite repair shop, so perhaps they will offer some suggestions.

HTH,
OF

[rjberns]

Thank you Ortho Fan for the info !

Your VV-XI dates from 1917, -- see: http://www.victor-victrola.com/XI.htm -- and would probably have been shipped with a Victor Exhibition sound box. Sonora was another brand made by a different manufacturer, altogether. At some point, the original Victor sound box most likely went missing, and the Sonora sound box was substituted.

A Victor No. 2 sound box will also fit your Victrola's tone arm.

There should be nothing special about restoring a Sonora sound box, compared to any other type. Normally, it's just a matter of replacing the gaskets and/or diaphragm if it's damaged. But, if it's in restorable condition, you might consider using it as a trade-in towards a Victor Exhibition sound box, or a Victor No. 2 sound box.

A number of repair shops specializing in sound box repair are listed on this page -- http://www.proaxis.com/~settlet/record/links.html Scroll down to the "Accessories/Restoration " section toward the bottom of the page to see the list.

Many members of this forum have their favorite repair shop, so perhaps they will offer some suggestions.

HTH,
OF

[Henry]

My XI, ser.#370333G, has the Exhibition sound box, which is the way it came out of Camden in 1917, so I'd go for the Exh. if I were you. A rebuilt one, properly done, will sound terrific on yours. Your Sonora may sound great, too, but it's not original to that machine. Feel free to ask anything about your XI and I'll try to answer. Congratulations!

BTW, Exhibitions come up all the time on the auction site, so take your time and see if you can score a good price on one. Many of the dealers mentioned on this site will have them as well.

[gramophoneshane]

Personally, I wouldn't bother with getting an Exhibition, whether it's original or not. As far as I'm concerned, an Exhibition is only good for pre-WWI records, and once restored the Sonora box will produce far better sound quality on discs of any era.

[OrthoFan]

Personally, I wouldn't bother with getting an Exhibition, whether it's original or not. As far as I'm concerned, an Exhibition is only good for pre-WWI records, and once restored the Sonora box will produce far better sound quality on discs of any era.

I wish you could hear my Exhibition sound box. One day, I swear -- "@#$%^&%" -- okay, I swore -- I'll get myself a nice video camera and post something on Youtube.

Admittedly, it was rebuilt and tuned, some 20 years ago now, using unorthodox methods -- a standard front (visible) gasket coated with a micro-thin layer of silicone, and silicone used in place of the back gasket. It plays all acoustic records with unbelievable purity and fidelity. Even early electrical records sound good. The most obvious difference is that it does not have that annoying "ringing" quality on loud passages that most rebuilt Exhibition sound boxes I've listened to have had.

Today, I understand, the gaskets available are more compliant than those used decades ago, and do not put as much pressure on the outer rim of the mica, so that might reduce the "mica tone," somewhat.

In any event, though, I agree that something like a Sonora Super Fine sound box, with it's much larger diaphragm, would probably do a better job--performance-wise--than your average restored Exhibition sound box, especially if later production 78s are played. I think if I were in RJ's position, I'd have that restored, but would also eventually hunt down a nice Exhibition sound box, for authenticity's sake. (Actually, can one ever have enough spare sound boxes?)

[Henry]

What OrthoFan said. And g-shane, I wish you could hear *my* Exhibition on electricals. I guarantee you won't hear cleaner sound on B. Goodman, Harry James, Tommy D., name any big band, than what comes out of my XI.

[gramophoneshane]

Gentlemen, I am well aware of what a properly restored & adjusted Exhibition sounds like, but the fact remains they are a 1903 design & have a tiny diaphragm. There are just far better mica diaphragmed soundboxes out there.
It does make me wonder how many well restored off-brand reproducers those who swear by the Exhibition have actually heard though.

[larryh]

I have to agree that in diaphragms as the saying goes, "size matters". I don't think you can get around the fact the the larger surface produces a wider ability to get the sound out of a record. Long ago I gave up on victors as mostly harsh sounding after hearing my first rebuilt brunswick, which of course has one of the larger diaphragms. The very fact that in most cases as time passed and increased recording abilities came into play the mica diaphragms became larger in it self is an indicator that should tell you that they also felt that improved sound capabilities were inherent in larger units that the previous smaller one.

Its been 30 years at least since I owned a cabinet victor with a #2 reproducer, but I would rather be curious to once again revisit the capabilities of the machine. I don't know if its brand loyalty or just preference to it that makes so many so fond of them? I just know that there are things in the records that you will not hear well presented in victors that brunswicks do, as a mostly listener with a great appreciation for the cabinets as well, that became my choice long ago. My small telefunken portable also uses a very large diaphragm and the sound is very good with it as well. Sadly the Victor 4 seems to have missed the mark somehow in the quest for improved sound by Victor.

[OrthoSean]

Sadly the Victor 4 seems to have missed the mark somehow in the quest for improved sound by Victor.

Larry,

Have you ever heard a properly rebuilt #4? I'm guessing not, I actually did a "blind" tone test sort of thing with a friend of mine a couple of months ago. I played both a rebuilt orthophonic and a #4 on my 8-9 using an adapter and a few Victor electrics and it was pretty tough to tell the difference between the two.

Sean