The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:08 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: How To Store Cylinders: I Think I Found The Answer!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:36 am 
Offline
Victor VI
User avatar
Edison Records - Close your eyes and see if the artist does not actually seem to be before you.
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:28 pm
Posts: 3712
Location: Česká Republika
It's too bad the metal edge boxes can't be made cheaper. They look to be about perfect. I've seen some similar cylindrical boxes but they were equally expensive as I recall.

Anyway alot of these wax cylinders have survived outside of climate controlled facilities for over a hundred years. If now they are stored reasonable albeit not ideal conditions, such as room temp and varying humidity between 35 and 65% I think most would last another hundred. Most of my wax is stored in climate controlled conditions, around 45% humidity and temp between 60-68F and I have not had a problem for several years.

One thing that's impossible for me to detirmine is the reason that rarely, one falls apart on your hands, or when you are trying to push it onto the mandrel even in the most gentle way. Could that be avoided by some alteration in storage techniques?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How To Store Cylinders: I Think I Found The Answer!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:05 pm 
Offline
Victor Jr
User avatar
It's a what?
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:42 am
Posts: 17
Location: Upstate New York
Don Williams, a senior conservator of the Smithsonian Institute, insists the the most important thing we can do to preserve WAX cylinders to to clean them. Mold will eat away the surface and dirt will scour the grooves when they are played. He recommends a 1% solution of detergent in distilled water and using artist brushes to dislodge particulate matter. Rinsing can be done with distilled water in a plastic squirt bottle. Air dry for a short time and remove any beads of moisture with a lint-free cloth or litho pad.

Storage should never include any type of fabric. Fabric can draw moisture and hold it against the cylinder. Williams recommends wrapping the cylinder in glassine paper which is gently folded into the ends of the cylinder to hold it in place. Then you make a single layer sleeve of polypropylene foam to fit around the cylinder. Ideally the cylinders can then be stored on end in an archival box with a tiny bit of "wiggle" room betwen them so they don't distort each other. This box would like a dust-free, cool room - about 60-70 degrees Fahrenheit and 40% rH. Cooler and dryer is OK.

Later cylinders and shellac discs can be deep cleaned using a facial exfoliation treatment. But that may be old news . . .

Here's a link to the poly foam:

http://www.gaylordmart.com/adblock.asp? ... g=&target=


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How To Store Cylinders: I Think I Found The Answer!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:12 pm 
Offline
Victor V
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm
Posts: 2515
Valecnik wrote:
One thing that's impossible for me to detirmine is the reason that rarely, one falls apart on your hands, or when you are trying to push it onto the mandrel even in the most gentle way. Could that be avoided by some alteration in storage techniques?


The only 2 minute cylinders I've had this kind of problem with, are the late 2 mins made from the same wax as 4 minute amberols.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How To Store Cylinders: I Think I Found The Answer!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:14 pm 
Offline
Victor II
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 316
Location: Somewhere looking for a 9ft Brass Horn
gramophoneshane wrote:
Valecnik wrote:
One thing that's impossible for me to detirmine is the reason that rarely, one falls apart on your hands, or when you are trying to push it onto the mandrel even in the most gentle way. Could that be avoided by some alteration in storage techniques?


The only 2 minute cylinders I've had this kind of problem with, are the late 2 mins made from the same wax as 4 minute amberols.



I have had this problem with all cylinders.I the cylinder is warm and the mandrel is cool it can either A)crack the cylinder or B) shirink the cylinder on the mandrel making it harder or imposible to pull off.

Aaron


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How To Store Cylinders: I Think I Found The Answer!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:04 pm 
Offline
Victor V
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm
Posts: 2515
Wow. Maybe I'm just lucky the weather doesn't go below 0 then? I remember leaving a 2 min GM clinder on the mandrel one afternoon & not being able to slide it off later that night because it had shrunk. I had to wait until lunchtime the next day before it slipped off again, but I've never had an ordinary GM cylinder shatter unless I've dropped it from 2 or 3 feet :) Usually they're quite sturdy.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How To Store Cylinders: I Think I Found The Answer!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:08 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:07 am
Posts: 970
It took my some time to find them in my records. This is the company that makes the archival tube cardboard boxes. I don't know the current prices.

http://www.ridgidpapertube.com/

I bought a set of their boxes a few years ago and they serve my precious records pretty well, although they are not intended for transportation. The record can stand freely within the box where the style is pretty close to the earlier Edison Gold Moulded boxes with a center carboard peg and no inner lining.

Instead of the idea of sealing they do all have a tiny hole on the side to allow ventilation. These boxes are also made from acid-free cardboard with plastic lid and bottom where the cylinder rests on.

I will check out the Metal Edge ones too, although I have some reservations about the PE foam. Of course, it is no fabric nor organic but I see a potential risk that it could collect organic remains from a record. However, the squared shape looks to be quite useful.

I found the use of small plastic packs with silica gel quite handy to store cylinders in their own tight boxes - as long as these are intact. Especially the European Edison boxes are -very- tight and therefore are often found with cylinders damaged by mold.

Norman


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How To Store Cylinders: I Think I Found The Answer!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:50 pm 
Offline
Victor II
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 316
Location: Somewhere looking for a 9ft Brass Horn
Norman,

I think those are the same containers i saw for sale on ebay and the ones the library of congress uses... And where do you find the silica packs for sale? That was one of the things i originaly thought would work. Would you recomend them as a good way to store the cylinders? Do they work for both brown and black wax or one better then the other?

Bests,
Aaron


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How To Store Cylinders: I Think I Found The Answer!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:03 am 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:07 am
Posts: 970
Yes, Aaron. I got those from an ebay seller. I paid $4 w/o shipping each but that in summer of 2004.

Making the tiny silica get packs on your own is the very cheapest way and can reduce costs by up to 90%. I bought a few hundred poly bags for a few Euros and then about one pound of silica gel. Then I take a steel needle and punch a few holes into the bag before filling it with the grain.
You can also buy the more expensive silica gel with color indicator (get the orange, not the toxic blue) and mix it with the cheaper transparent style.

I pay for the white silica get about 2 Euros/100 grams of which I am sure can be found somewhere else even cheaper. The poly bags (4 x 6 cm) should not cost more than 5 Euros for 500 pcs. I bought mine from different ebay sellers. The loose silica gel can be usually obtained from sellers who deal with supplies for meteorite collectors.

I have found any wax cylinder to work do fine with one of these self-made packs placed inside the record - as long as the lid is tight.

Norman


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How To Store Cylinders: I Think I Found The Answer!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:45 am 
Offline
Victor V
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm
Posts: 2515
I've been using silica gel in my boxes (and drawers) for at least 10 yrs now, and they seem to work well. I just steal the small bags from my mum's pill bottles, and the large bags I keep in the drawers have always come from shoe boxes when she gets new shoes :)
I just change the bags over about once a year or so. So far, none of the cylinders have gone moldy, but whether they would have without the silica gel is anyones guess.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How To Store Cylinders: I Think I Found The Answer!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:12 am 
Offline
Victor VI
User avatar
Edison Records - Close your eyes and see if the artist does not actually seem to be before you.
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:28 pm
Posts: 3712
Location: Česká Republika
I would not want to start doing that. It would give my wife an excuse to buy more shoes. Her collection already rivals Imelda Marcos. However it's hard to complain. If i do she just points a finger into my study or my parents house in Minnesota, full of phonos and ephemera! :?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], c5fan, Google [Bot], Skogga and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.