Educateing Myself

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Edisonfan
Victor V
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Educateing Myself

Post by Edisonfan »

George Paul, gave me some good advice recently. He told me the best thing to do was to educate myslef, as much as I can with this hobby. Good advice, and some of which, I am going to work at. I have two of the his books, that he co-authored with Tim Frabrizo "Discovering Antique Phonographs" and "The Talking Machine An Illustrated Compendium" Both books, are full of a ton of valueable infromation. A lot of which I never knew about.

I do come across some nice phonographs, but the prices on them are outragous. $795.00 for a 2/4 minute Edison Machine, and $1,400.00 for another, with a Morning Glory Horn. Or the gentlemen, selling a Edison Concert Machine for $2,300.00, minus the records. I did not find any. The look like very nice machines, but I would never spend that kind of money. Espcially, if they would need some work, and looking for concert cylinders for the Edison. Seems to me that, these dealers, are useing a price guide, to gauge the price of these machines. Hoping to get a lot of money. Also, two of these machines have been the for quite some time. The other was just added. Also, I have found Victrola's with high prices on them, and never move. Dealer's want to seel these machines, but get the most money they can for them. That is why, I have learned to look for machines, that are reasonably priced. By, that I mean around $300.00. Although, I did spend too much for my cylinder machine, but I know better now.

Some point, I need to get to the Phonograph Show in Wayne NJ.

Paul

Aaron
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Re: Educateing Myself

Post by Aaron »

if sill have yet to get my own copies of those books i hope to get them soon though...And the Wayne show is a must for any collector!you meet great people who become great friends in the future.

Aaron

bostonmike1
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Re: Educateing Myself

Post by bostonmike1 »

hello my friends-------------this is only my opinion,and as the saying goes" opinions are like a&&holes, everybody has one, but maybe attempt to find machines that need a new life. this is why i got involved in this hobby-------the chance to give the old and possibly under appreciated machines a second chance. i work in a specialized machine shop( model shop) for Northrup Grumman that makes prototype parts for a sundry of projects. our parts put us on the moon (L.E.M. project) and our missle defense project today. i am 58 years old and am proud to be part of history in a small way .i am only a high school graduate ( i think they only gave me a diploma because they were sick of seeing my face) therefore i call myself a dummy. i do not know about chemisrty, biology or Shakespear but i do envy those that that are smarter than me. my brains are in my hands only. through my eyes i see this: a bedplate that was casted over a 100 years ago by way of "primative" means----a lead screw cut by single point method with accuracy----a mandrel and shaft that runs true today within .005 t.i.r if not manhandled in the past -------the ability to compute and cut a gear to make our machines run at 160 r.p.m. as required. through this machinists Dummy) eyes this is extraordinary! please keep in mind that the people who designed, manufactured and distributed these machines walked or rode to work on horseback,had no air-conditioning or even indoor plumbing as we know it and take for granted. they had no computers( which i swear at times are more problems than they are worth). i sincerely doubt that 25% of the crap we make today would survive the test of time 100 years from now. so from my position, take and restore a unit that can be reborn! my friend EDISONFAN, restore what you can yourself. when you put that [Fifi] back together (sorry Sharon for the language) it will bring you more pride and satisfaction than e-bay or any dealer could ever give you. the dealers are into it for the money----they do not appreciate the fun of collecting to bring back a piece of history. if you ever need help with a part restoration , just ask me. your friend michael

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3victrolas
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Re: Educateing Myself

Post by 3victrolas »

Ah! A machinist in our midst. I don't know if you had much of a chance to read many of the older posts elsewhere, but there always seems to be a need for someone, such as yourself, who can craft replacements for pot metal parts that are no longer available. How many people do you know that can do that sort of thing? I only know 1 other.

Also, never underestimate your skills. Just because you aren't a Ph.D. doesn't mean you're an idiot. In fact, a number of the Ph.D.s that I've personally known may be book smart, but when it comes to everyday come in out of the rain common sense, I'd say they are a day late & a dollar short.

Sorry, don't want to insult any Ph.D.s out there. I formed my opinion based on the ones that I know personally.

3victrolas

phonophan79
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Re: Educateing Myself

Post by phonophan79 »

I agree with bostonmike's sentiments on the quality of these machines while being created in a far technically inferior world. Those phonographs were people's pride and joy and they were made to last a lifetime. ...and here we are 1-2 lifetimes later and they are still working. I know we discussed this thread on ProBoards, but it really rings true for me.

I have only been collecting for around 2 years now and I've learned so much about these machines. I've gotten my hands dirty and gotten bold enough to fool around on some machine insides as well.

I couldn't have done it without educating myself and without the help of these forums.

Neophone
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Re: Educateing Myself

Post by Neophone »

Michael,

You sound pretty darn smart to me. I've only got a H.S. diploma as well. We are what we make of ourselves. Knowledge itself is not intelligence. You may not have knowledge of things like Shakespeare and chemistry, but that's not the only measure of "brains".

As you so perfectly put it when put in the context of when and how they were designed and make these machines are truly amazing.

Paul, I very much want to put together a list of the "required reading" for new collectors. I hope to be able to talk with a few members here and put together a good basic list.

Regards,
John

Listening to the Victrola fifteen minutes a day will alter and brighten your whole life.
Use each needle only ONCE!


estott
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Re: Educateing Myself

Post by estott »

phonophan79 wrote:I agree with bostonmike's sentiments on the quality of these machines while being created in a far technically inferior world.
Actually, I wouldn't say that the technology was inferior. The 19th and early 20th C. was the era of mechanical technology. If it could be done with gears levers and cams they could do it. These days we can do some miraculous things but we've had to jump to a completely different way of doing things. If you asked a modern engineer to build a phonograph using only mechanical components, no electronics, modern plastics, I suspect they'd come up with something that has been done before.

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Edisonfan
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Re: Educateing Myself

Post by Edisonfan »

John, another good book, especially for Edison DD machine owners, is: "Edison Disc Phonographs, and the Diamond Discs" by George L. Frow. He also wrote one on Edison Cylinder machines, but it's out of print. There is also the Victor Data Book, and Look for the Dog.


Thanks for the advice everyone.

Paul

bostonmike1
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Re: Educateing Myself

Post by bostonmike1 »

hello my friends---------although i am not in agreement with my friends ESTOTT'S reply, i never disregard or diminish a persons opinion. that is what mades a logical discussion worthwhile. if one studies the history of "manufacturing" you are without a doubt correct when you state the latter part of the 1800's and the first 10 years of the next century was the advent of mechanical technology---" the machine age." it was dynamic at it's inception but INFERIOR as we know it today---------as ours will be inferior 100 years from now! i was giving praise and not critisizing those before us. Archimedes developed the concept for what we know as the simple screw before the birth of Christ ( he was to mathematics what our MORDETH is to computers ---a freaking genius) but until the 19th century the ability to "mass produce" or replicate the same unit and or part so that each one was the same as the part befoe and the next one thereafter, was not attainable. today we have c.n.c. (computerized numerical controlled) machines but back in that place and time they had no electricity as a source of power but only a river behind or close to the factory to propel and drive their machines through overhead leather belts as a drive mechanism. this is why i said primitive. a worker at that time was lucky to have had an 8th grade education, yet they produced the machines we have, cherish and still discuss today! many others like myself can replicate any part on our machines, but i am not sure i could do it under the circumstances they endured. next time you look at your machine,think about it. you may appeciate them even more! your friend michael

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