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 Post subject: Re: Wiring a cartridge for Edison/Pathé/Etc.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:00 am 
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Victor V
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Well, everyone covered the wiring part, but no takers on stylus size? 8-)

I assume your 78 "standard stylus" is in the 3 mil range, right?

DDs can sometimes play best with a .7 mil elliptical (LP) stylus, sometimes a much larger stylus (I find the 3.5, 3.8 or 4.0 all useful at different times with DDs).

You'll find Pathés are much the same story, although I start at 2.5 mil and work my way up from there. The largest stylus I have is a 7.0 recommended by Expert for Pathés and other verticals yet even that has trouble with them sometimes. Since most people aren't too interested in investing thousands into custum styli, I'd suggest using what you have, honestly, unless you really have to have the most perfect possible sound.

The bottom line is, there is no real guide here, I've got enough different styli here that I can usually get good sound from almost anything, but sometimes that involves trying 12 different sizes by the time I get good results and by that point, I don't want to hear the record any longer! :?

Sean


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 Post subject: Re: Wiring a cartridge for Edison/Pathé/Etc.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:00 am 
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Victor VI
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Edison Records - Close your eyes and see if the artist does not actually seem to be before you.
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OrthoSean wrote:
Well, everyone covered the wiring part, but no takers on stylus size? 8-)

DDs can sometimes play best with a .7 mil elliptical (LP) stylus, sometimes a much larger stylus (I find the 3.5, 3.8 or 4.0 all useful at different times with DDs).

Sean


Sean, obviously you know a bit about this. I suggest a 3.5 stylus for DDs. (See post previous to yours in this string). I also have a .7 and a 2.7 or 3 (I think)for 78s and LPs.

Of all the styli sizes you reference above, what would be the best for various types of DDs and are the critera related to the condition of the disc, timeframe of the recording, both or totally random???

Thanks, Valecnik


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 Post subject: Re: Wiring a cartridge for Edison/Pathé/Etc.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:28 am 
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Victor V
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Hi Bruce,

There really seems to be no rhyme nor reason from I can tell (or hear!), I've had paper label store stock DDs that I know were never stored in bad conditions (a story for later) where one plays beautifully with the 3.5 and another from the same stock, relatively close catalog number where I'll get really bad swishing, almost, using anything larger than a 2.5 mil...it's an odd game as many "transfer folks" will tell you! Now that I think a little further on this one, the only variable I can think of is the tendency of Edison to press discs with well worn stampers.

The nicest DDs for electric playback seem to be consistently the early "frosted" label transfer presssings. The sound on those can be just stunning!

Sean (returning from a small "hiatus" here!)


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 Post subject: Re: Wiring a cartridge for Edison/Pathé/Etc.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:46 am 
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Victor VI
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Edison Records - Close your eyes and see if the artist does not actually seem to be before you.
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:28 pm
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"Frosted Label Pressings?" What are they?

You've also given me an idea. :idea: I have some very nice, late acoustic DDs I picked up in Europe in the 51500-51900 range. They look like NOS but sound like someone ran a belt sander over them when I use a 3.5 mil stylus. I'll have to try the 2.7 and the LP stylus when I get time and see if it improves the quality.


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 Post subject: Re: Wiring a cartridge for Edison/Pathé/Etc.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:57 am 
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Victor V
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Frosted label pressings...the very first DD pressings, with celluliod surfaces rather than condensite, they're usually nice, quiet glass smooth and sound just amazing.

I know what you mean about the belt sander sounding surfaces! Unfortunately, sometimes nothing helps and I've never really nailed down what any of this could be from other than dumb luck. They seem to do very well on the C-19 nevertheless, though. I've heard that the Click Repair people have put out a rumble filter, which would probably help the rumble you hear from playing DDs back electrically...I haven't sprung for it yet though.

Sean


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 Post subject: Re: Wiring a cartridge for Edison/Pathé/Etc.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:59 pm 
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Victor V
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Some time ago I bought a 3.5 mil TE stylus because I was told it was supposed to be THE best stylus for DD's.

More times than not I've found it to give dissapointing results when compared to other styli I have on hand.

The 3.5 TE has been very useful for many of my laterals though. 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Wiring a cartridge for Edison/Pathé/Etc.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:19 pm 
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Victor V
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Exactly....and Wolfe, you're right. I use the 3.5 frequently on things like worn Victor scrolls and electric Brunswicks, though. I wish I could remember what the radius is for a 4 minute stylus offhand but I can't. When I bought my ACT reproducer several years ago, it came with both 2 minute (which works great for Pathés, btw) and 4 minute styli. The 4 minute stylus that came with that even sometimes gives lousy results on DDs. It's really a shot in the dark at best sometimes with DDs. If I had to offer what I use most on DDs, it would probably be the 2.5 TE, followed by either the 1.5 TE or the 4.0 TE...again it's impossible to pin one down!

Sean


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 Post subject: Re: Wiring a cartridge for Edison/Pathé/Etc.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:25 pm 
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Victor III
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At the risk of sounding dumb; isn't the whole (er) point of a truncated stylus that it shouldn't actually touch the bottom of the groove? (...and therefore not be what you'd want for a Diamond Disc at all?) I say this because, I was sold a 3.7 TE by a respected person some time ago and he claimed that it was what you'd want for a DD. The performance was terrible. I feel that I should've listened to my instincts when I asked him if he was sure that it was the right stylus for the application.


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 Post subject: Re: Wiring a cartridge for Edison/Pathé/Etc.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:13 pm 
OrthoSean wrote:
Frosted label pressings...the very first DD pressings, with celluliod surfaces rather than condensite, they're usually nice, quiet glass smooth and sound just amazing.

Sean


Now thats interesting. I had always assume that DD's were all made of the same materials from early to late production (with a few changes particularly during the war period due to material shortage). I didn't realise that the earliest ones were in fact celluloid. Does anyone know the range of DD's numbers that would have been celluloid coated?

And yes MArtinola, thats an interesting point (excuse the lousy pun!) about the TE stylus and its use on DD's.


RJ 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Wiring a cartridge for Edison/Pathé/Etc.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:44 pm 
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Victor V
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Yup, an excellent "point" indeed, which is why you need a selection of sizes for different discs, even those that are supposed to be "uniform" like DDs, but we all know well enough quality control wasn't exactly one of TAE's strong points! Some DDs seem to have better sound more toward the groove bottom while others don't...what more can I say? :P

Considering all of this though along with my last visit with Ward Marston, I can tell you he uses exactly the same stlyi I use and if it's good enough for him, it's certainly good enough for me! 8-)

Sean


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