In the 'Edison Cylinder Phonograph Companion' it is mentioned that the first model of the Standard was plagued with factory defects in the motor frame castings and this was attributed to ground settlement in the new manufacturing facility. While rebuilding the motor of Standard Model 'A', s/n S197888, I found a factory defect in the motor chassis. Though not related to the ground settlement defects mentioned above, I thought it would be interesting to share this and ask if anyone else has discovered manufacturing defects in any of their machines.
While tearing down s/n S197888 I noted that one of the three chassis mounting points was missing it's washer and flanged nut. I robbed the nut from a spare parts machine that I picked up (s/n S234011) which does not have washers but that's going to be another thread. While trial fitting the parts I noticed that the nut would not go through the hole in the chassis. The reason for this is that the surplus material that oozed into the hole during the casting process was never removed prior to assembly.
So my assumption is (and this is purely assumption) that the assembler on discovering the problem just let it go as is (aw,&%@* it!). Does anyone know how these folks were paid? Was it by the hour, piecework??? I do know Edison had timeclocks in the factories but did they apply to all employees? Here's the decision I need to make. Do I fix this defect or leave it as a piece of history? I tend to think I'll leave it and put a copy of this thread inside the case for future reference.
Next up, when i can find the time, is a rather ugly woodworking defect on a VV-VI.
Factory Defects
- bob27556
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Re: Factory Defects
Bob,
I'd be tempted to leave it as is if you can work around it. It is as you say an interesting curiosity.
Regards,
John
I'd be tempted to leave it as is if you can work around it. It is as you say an interesting curiosity.
Regards,
John
Listening to the Victrola fifteen minutes a day will alter and brighten your whole life.
Use each needle only ONCE!
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Re: Factory Defects
The most interesting defect that I have seen was a decal that was applied upside down and it was applied in a Vernis Martin Victrola. The machine is in nearly perfect original condition and the current owner speculates that the error was discovered before it was sold. He thinks that it probably sat in the corner of the factory or store and was eventually sold at a discount when it was an obsolete model. Jerry Blais
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Re: Factory Defects
Jerry, all, I think someone, George? Tim? should write a book on factory defects. The amazing thing is that stuff appears to have been sold that way. I once had an Amberola V with the "Edison" decal on the wrong side, (upper side underneath the lid). It was probably too much work to fix and they figured nobody would see it there anyway so they just slapped another decal on the other side...
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Re: Factory Defects
Thanks for posting this Bob.
I've seen similar, (though not as serious) casting prep defects in a couple of my standards. I think you're right about the person prepping the casting. But give the poor guy a break: his job was a real grind. (I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.) Seriously, would you be willing to share data on both or all of your Standards? I'm compiling a database of Standards which I hope to make public in the near future. (it's still quite small.) It'd be great to see pictures of both machines. Thanks again.
Martin
I've seen similar, (though not as serious) casting prep defects in a couple of my standards. I think you're right about the person prepping the casting. But give the poor guy a break: his job was a real grind. (I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.) Seriously, would you be willing to share data on both or all of your Standards? I'm compiling a database of Standards which I hope to make public in the near future. (it's still quite small.) It'd be great to see pictures of both machines. Thanks again.
Martin
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Re: Factory Defects
Martin,
Sure, I'd be happy to provide info and photos for your database. I've got 2 others that are up and running, one of them is a 'B' model with 2 speed and Diamond 'B' conversion that I did. It took a couple of years to obtain all the parts required and it still lacks a cygnet horn and crane.
How do you want to collect the info, PM?
Sure, I'd be happy to provide info and photos for your database. I've got 2 others that are up and running, one of them is a 'B' model with 2 speed and Diamond 'B' conversion that I did. It took a couple of years to obtain all the parts required and it still lacks a cygnet horn and crane.
How do you want to collect the info, PM?
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Re: Factory Defects
Hi Bob!
PM is fine. And if anybody else wants to add theirs, I'm looking for 1.) serial #, 2.) last patent date, 3.) reproducer model (& serial if possible) 4.) cabinet type (2 clip A, 4 clip A, New case A, Tall case, or Late case with wide moulding) 5.) Case Decal type (Banner or Edison) 6.) ICS model? 7.)Anything else that might be interesting including rumors and suspicions. Photos are a help, but not absolutely necessary.
Thanks again!
Martin
PM is fine. And if anybody else wants to add theirs, I'm looking for 1.) serial #, 2.) last patent date, 3.) reproducer model (& serial if possible) 4.) cabinet type (2 clip A, 4 clip A, New case A, Tall case, or Late case with wide moulding) 5.) Case Decal type (Banner or Edison) 6.) ICS model? 7.)Anything else that might be interesting including rumors and suspicions. Photos are a help, but not absolutely necessary.
Thanks again!
Martin
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Re: Factory Defects
I came across what I believe to be a factory mistake recently as I can't find anyone who has seen anything like it. I was rebuilding a Diamond Disc reproducer that was the second variation with the stylus bar plate attached to the weight with 4 screws. When I removed the weight to inspect and clean it, I noticed something I hadn't ever seen before. The concave "cup" portion found on the top of DD weights was not present. Instead, it was flat. Here is a picture of it:
The first version of Diamond Disc reproducers used a weight that had a flat top like this one, but the surface was smooth. When the second version was introduced, the weights had the concave "cup" added to the top and as the reproducers changed over the years, the cupped portion became deeper and had larger diameters. For some reason, this one never had the concave portion of the weight removed and must be a factory mistake that was released.
I compared the weight to other early style weights I have from reproducers that are very close in serial numbers and they have the concave portion as expected. Here is a comparison of the weight in question next to another early weight from a reproducer with a similar serial number:
I showed it to Steven Medved and he suggested it was probably a factory mistake that was distributed anyway. Has anyone ever see a weight like this before?
The first version of Diamond Disc reproducers used a weight that had a flat top like this one, but the surface was smooth. When the second version was introduced, the weights had the concave "cup" added to the top and as the reproducers changed over the years, the cupped portion became deeper and had larger diameters. For some reason, this one never had the concave portion of the weight removed and must be a factory mistake that was released.
I compared the weight to other early style weights I have from reproducers that are very close in serial numbers and they have the concave portion as expected. Here is a comparison of the weight in question next to another early weight from a reproducer with a similar serial number:
I showed it to Steven Medved and he suggested it was probably a factory mistake that was distributed anyway. Has anyone ever see a weight like this before?
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Re: Factory Defects
Just a couple of guesses here. Edison first was rather stingy and they may have used a part since the concave part was covered that they had otherwise decided not to use for some reason. Or being an inventor perhaps it was a try to see how something worked out? And it might just have been a plain old mistake, but its pretty hard to see how they might have produced something that distinct as a mistake?
Larry
Larry
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Re: Factory Defects
Home Model D
Several years ago I bought an Edison Home Model D from the Cane County Fair in Illinois. The machine was nearly perfect only dirty. It wouldn't play because of the swollen bearing (so I thought). After I got it cleaned up and a new bearing installed, I realized that the one of the front motor mounts was drilled but not threaded enough. The standard bolt would only screw in so far and would not support the motor. I ended up cutting a bolt down so it lifted the motor to the proper height. I realized the phonograph was never played before hence the good condition it was in.
Home Model B
I had a Home Model B that had the Edison signature on the front of the bed plate double stamped.
Several years ago I bought an Edison Home Model D from the Cane County Fair in Illinois. The machine was nearly perfect only dirty. It wouldn't play because of the swollen bearing (so I thought). After I got it cleaned up and a new bearing installed, I realized that the one of the front motor mounts was drilled but not threaded enough. The standard bolt would only screw in so far and would not support the motor. I ended up cutting a bolt down so it lifted the motor to the proper height. I realized the phonograph was never played before hence the good condition it was in.
Home Model B
I had a Home Model B that had the Edison signature on the front of the bed plate double stamped.