mainspring grease

[soundgen]

1) Gramophone main springs should never be oiled , oil just sticks the unwinding coils together and causes bumping as they slide and do not unwind , the oil in oilbath motors lubricated the mechanism NOT the springs in the barrells

2) Graphited grease was used as the graphite acts to stop the spring coils sliding rather unwinding , I use Moly lithium grease which contains Molybdenum disulphide which acts like graphite , but many manufacturers in the UK Garrard and Columbia motors use ordinary grease , in which case vaseline or lithium grease should be fine and add jraphite if you wish , you shouldn't use high temperature greases as these are very viscous at room temperature ,

3) Pack the spring barrel with grease and not just a thin film on the coils , you will only have to do this once in your lifetime

4) don't use old Victor or HMV grease as this goes rock solid after time as I am sure anyone who has had to remove it will testify

[Uncle Vanya]

Writing as an engineer who spent a few years designing industrial lubricants at the beginning of my career, I will say that since using modern heavy gear oils with quality EP additive packages about forty years ago I have never heard a spring grunt. EP stands for "Extreme Pressure". An "EP Additive" is designed to prevent the microscopic asperities which exist on the smoothest of metal surfaces from either catching or welding.

Graphite was an early EP additive, providing a physical barrier between surfaces. It worked well enough in certain applications, but being an amorphus form of carbon it tends to oxydize (burn, if you will) when exposed In a hot environment. "Moly", or Molybdenum Disulfide is not quite as naturally slick as graphite, but it has long since displaced it as an EP additive in certain applications owing to its greater resistance to heat and pressure.

The first really successful synthetic chemical EP additive was Lead Napthinate, a sophisticated metallic soap, which was much better than any of the then known barrier additives at preventing sticking of sliding surfaces. This product was developed at the turn of the last century and by 1915 had entirely displaced plumbago in serious applications.

Vaseline in particular, and Petrolatum compounds in general make terrible lubricants, for they polymerize over time with exposure to heat and oxygen, and gain viscosity until they become a sticky mess.

Modern lubricants use highly refined oils which are far less prone to oxydization and varnish formation that the lubricants of old. The thickeners used today are far less likely to either drop their oils or to solidify with exposure to oxygen and heat. In addition, the available additive packages are far more effective at preventing oxydstion and varnish formation and at preventing sticking than anything which was even imagined before 1970.

A modern, heavy, synthetic gear oil with any current additive package is so far ahead of anything which was available to our ancestors that it beggars belief. For those that must use a grease, a light aluminum complex grease with an NLGI penetration of 1 will do splendidly, for it will not deteriorate as quickly as the commonly used lithium creases, which in fact are terribly outmoded.

Remember that Brunswick used oil in their motors, which were fitted with those awful, wavy National Steel springs, and their motors never grunt, even after decades in an American attic.

[fran604g]

Writing as an engineer who spent a few years designing industrial lubricants at the beginning of my career, I will say that since using modern heavy gear oils with quality EP additive packages about forty years ago I have never heard a spring grunt. EP stands for "Extreme Pressure". An "EP Additive" is designed to prevent the microscopic asperities which exist on the smoothest of metal surfaces from either catching or welding.

Graphite was an early EP additive, providing a physical barrier between surfaces. It worked well enough in certain applications, but being an amorphus form of carbon it tends to oxydize (burn, if you will) when exposed In a hot environment. "Moly", or Molybdenum Disulfide is not quite as naturally slick as graphite, but it has long since displaced it as an EP additive in certain applications owing to its greater resistance to heat and pressure.

The first really successful synthetic chemical EP additive was Lead Napthinate, a sophisticated metallic soap, which was much better than any of the then known barrier additives at preventing sticking of sliding surfaces. This product was developed at the turn of the last century and by 1915 had entirely displaced plumbago in serious applications.

Vaseline in particular, and Petrolatum compounds in general make terrible lubricants, for they polymerize over time with exposure to heat and oxygen, and gain viscosity until they become a sticky mess.

Modern lubricants use highly refined oils which are far less prone to oxydization and varnish formation that the lubricants of old. The thickeners used today are far less likely to either drop their oils or to solidify with exposure to oxygen and heat. In addition, the available additive packages are far more effective at preventing oxydstion and varnish formation and at preventing sticking than anything which was even imagined before 1970.

A modern, heavy, synthetic gear oil with any current additive package is so far ahead of anything which was available to our ancestors that it beggars belief. For those that must use a grease, a light aluminum complex grease with an NLGI penetration of 1 will do splendidly, for it will not deteriorate as quickly as the commonly used lithium creases, which in fact are terribly outmoded.

Remember that Brunswick used oil in their motors, which were fitted with those awful, wavy National Steel springs, and their motors never grunt, even after decades in an American attic.

Thank you for your empirical input. It's nice to read something other than anecdote.

Best,
Fran

[CharliePhono]

Thank you for your empirical input. It's nice to read something other than anecdote.

Best,
Fran[/quote]

Couldn't agree more. I found this post extremely informative and helpful.

[Stephen_Heatherly]

[quote="phonogfp"]Using a Vaseline & graphite mixture as originally supplied really makes no sense, my friends. If you owned a century-old Model T, wouldn't you use the vastly superior modern lubricants for it? Doesn't an antique phonograph merit the same respect?

As a matter of fact, I do own a model T and yes, I do use modern oil in just like every antique car owner. However, a phonograph spring opperates under conditions far less extreme than what occurs inside a gasoline engine and I have found the origional lubricant to be more than sufficient. I'm not in any way suggesting that modern lubricants don't have their advantages, but I use what I like and everybody should do what suites them best.

Stephen

[gramophone-georg]

Writing as an engineer who spent a few years designing industrial lubricants at the beginning of my career, I will say that since using modern heavy gear oils with quality EP additive packages about forty years ago I have never heard a spring grunt. EP stands for "Extreme Pressure". An "EP Additive" is designed to prevent the microscopic asperities which exist on the smoothest of metal surfaces from either catching or welding.

Graphite was an early EP additive, providing a physical barrier between surfaces. It worked well enough in certain applications, but being an amorphus form of carbon it tends to oxydize (burn, if you will) when exposed In a hot environment. "Moly", or Molybdenum Disulfide is not quite as naturally slick as graphite, but it has long since displaced it as an EP additive in certain applications owing to its greater resistance to heat and pressure.

The first really successful synthetic chemical EP additive was Lead Napthinate, a sophisticated metallic soap, which was much better than any of the then known barrier additives at preventing sticking of sliding surfaces. This product was developed at the turn of the last century and by 1915 had entirely displaced plumbago in serious applications.

Vaseline in particular, and Petrolatum compounds in general make terrible lubricants, for they polymerize over time with exposure to heat and oxygen, and gain viscosity until they become a sticky mess.

Modern lubricants use highly refined oils which are far less prone to oxydization and varnish formation that the lubricants of old. The thickeners used today are far less likely to either drop their oils or to solidify with exposure to oxygen and heat. In addition, the available additive packages are far more effective at preventing oxydstion and varnish formation and at preventing sticking than anything which was even imagined before 1970.

A modern, heavy, synthetic gear oil with any current additive package is so far ahead of anything which was available to our ancestors that it beggars belief. For those that must use a grease, a light aluminum complex grease with an NLGI penetration of 1 will do splendidly, for it will not deteriorate as quickly as the commonly used lithium creases, which in fact are terribly outmoded.

Remember that Brunswick used oil in their motors, which were fitted with those awful, wavy National Steel springs, and their motors never grunt, even after decades in an American attic.

I actually make a "flowable synthetic grease" of Redline Synthetic Red Grease mixed 50/50 with Redline Synthetic ATF that has served me quite well.

[NEFaurora]

Also,

Using Spray Lithium Grease is probably THE WORST lubrication option that you could ever use for a Mainspring as "Spray Lithium Grease" will be guaranteed to be all dried up within a 2-3 year period.

Use something that works and that will not dry out. Use Modern Automotive Brown Wheel Bearing grease. It's been decades proven...Looks vintage too!

)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer