Cardboard cone phonographs

[Guest]

Hello,
I am looking for information about these phonographs using a cardboard cone which operates both as diaphragm and horn.
Pathé has built different models (portative, table-top ...) called "Diffusor" using this system (I have one, these are scarce), I found out also that Victor made similar-operating machines called "Lumière".
Usually this ingenious system makes a good sound, and was meant to work with needle cut and diamond cut records, as long as the cone would vibrate in all directions depending from the kind of record, and there was only to change the needle to change, in order to play different types of records.
I was wondering when it was invented and by who, and which other makers built this kind of phonographs.
Does someone here have such machines ? It seems they are very sought after and rare, even in Europe.

[Lucius1958]

As far as I know, the 'Lumière' diaphragms were never marketed in the US by Victor: it was HMV in the UK, and perhaps some other European affiliates.

As for Pathé, I don't know if the "Diffusor" was known in the US, but the "Actuelle" certainly was...

There were also a number of portable phonographs that used paper cone diaphragms, such as the "Polly".... I have none of these myself, though....

[David Spanovich]

As far as I know, the 'Lumière' diaphragms were never marketed in the US by Victor

Interestingly, Victor did use the technology for it's Victor Loud Speaker Model 1, described in this post -- http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... f=2&t=4696

Victor Loud Speaker Model 1.jpg (139.12 KiB) Viewed 1253 times

They also made some experimental models using the Lumiere diaphragm, but these never made it to production.

DS

[Guest]

Interesting.
Do you know of other makers for this kind of machines ?
A quick search on eBay showed two similar phonographs : a small Brunswick cheap box :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300692140147
and a nicer one from France too, that looks to be a real rarity :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300690176814

[Uncle Vanya]

As far as I know, the 'Lumière' diaphragms were never marketed in the US by Victor: it was HMV in the UK, and perhaps some other European affiliates.

As for Pathé, I don't know if the "Diffusor" was known in the US, but the "Actuelle" certainly was...

There were also a number of portable phonographs that used paper cone diaphragms, such as the "Polly".... I have none of these myself, though....

Victor experimented with the Lumiere diaphragm pretty extensively in the years around 1910, but it was never determined to be a satisgactory reproducer according to the lits of the Product Committe. VTMC did use the diaphragem in two excellent radio loudspeakers, made in the 1925 and 1926. These appear to have sold in some quantity, but do not appear to have been runaway beat sellers.

The HMV Lumiere machines are reputed to paly acoustic discs very well indeed, and such has been my experience, but unfortunately they were introduced to the market just proior to the coming of electric recording. The moving mass of the reproducer assembly on these machines was such that it wore electric records terribly, being unable to successfully cope with the extended high frequencies of the new recording, and so these otherwise fine amcines were withdrawn form the market rather prematurely. The Pathé Actuelle has similar problems dealing with electric records.

Walters Conley built a series of machies just before and just after the War which ised conventional pressed paper loudspeaker cones directly driven by a stylus, and sold under the moniker "Phonocone". These machies performed quite well, given their low price. They did indeed wear records, but not appreciably more than the rather crude Tone arms and reproducers used on the last acoustic machines.

[Guest]

The main interest of these systems seem to be their versatility for using them with all types of records (excepted Edison diamond discs).
I wonder who invented this system, and who first marketed it. Has someone any clue ? I think it could be French. Actually on eBay the two cardboard-cone phonographs which are for sale are of French origin (including one of unknown or non-commercial maker, "Leon Speiser", could it be the inventor ?)