The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:02 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: "Take Me Out to the Ball Game"
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:56 pm 
Offline
Victor V
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 2353
No, there is no easy answer. Copyright (or more broadly, intellectual property rights) depends on the jurisdiction (location), what is being protected, as well as when (and sometimes where) something was created.

In this case, the very short answer is that the composition is public domain but the sound recording is not, at least by US rules. In Europe, both the record and composition are PD. Elsewhere that could vary.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "Take Me Out to the Ball Game"
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:59 pm 
Offline
Victor I
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:45 pm
Posts: 105
Ah, interesting. So, does that suggest that it's a violation of U.S. copyright laws to reproduce this recording for sale?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "Take Me Out to the Ball Game"
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:07 pm 
Offline
Victor V
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 2353
Actually, no, not copyright laws as such, which is why I said it wasn't simple and that a web search would be more helpful to you.

By explanation, sound records made before 1972 in the USA are not protected by federal copyright. Instead their protection comes from a network of state and local anti-piracy laws, most of which do not have expiration dates on their protection terms. That means it's entirely possible that a recording could be protected in one state and not in another. Since these laws are not easily accessed, nor is there likely to be significant benefit to doing so, it's generally agreed that it's best to assume that protection still applies everywhere.

Under current US copyright law, all sound recordings made before 1972 become public domain in 2067. After that, sound recordings will have a 95 year term. Again, completely different rules apply outside the USA, and of course the law could change between now and 2067.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "Take Me Out to the Ball Game"
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:12 pm 
Offline
Victor I
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:45 pm
Posts: 105
Hmm...that sounds like it would, in fact, be a violation. Just don't want to see anyone get into a jam on conducting or contributing this kind of activity. Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "Take Me Out to the Ball Game"
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:21 pm 
Offline
Victor I
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:45 pm
Posts: 105
That song was one of my first 2m black wax cylinders, which I managed to break by leaving it on the mandrel overnight during the winter...ugh!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "Take Me Out to the Ball Game"
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:42 pm 
Offline
Victor I
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:45 pm
Posts: 105
Thanks to 52089...interested in hearing other opinions on this important matter, thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "Take Me Out to the Ball Game"
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:51 pm 
Offline
Victor I
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:45 pm
Posts: 105
How much will a copy cost? Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "Take Me Out to the Ball Game"
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:30 am 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:07 am
Posts: 950
52089 wrote:
In Europe, both the record and composition are PD.

Actually, this is not true:

The ancillary* copyright has indeed expired but the composition is still very much copyrighted in the EU as well. According to Wikipedia, the music was composed by Albert von Tilzer († 1956) and the lyrics were written by Jack Norworth († 1959). Given that these dates are correct, it will enter PD status within the EU in 2030. Before that, a license has to be granted and paid for, otherwise it will be a violation of EU copyright law.

This is why I am still paying license fees for most of my 4-minute cylinder selections as well.

*[Edit: corrected from "associated"]


Last edited by WDC on Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "Take Me Out to the Ball Game"
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:05 pm 
Offline
Victor V
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 2353
WDC wrote:
52089 wrote:
In Europe, both the record and composition are PD.

Actually, this is not true:

The associated copyright has indeed expired but the composition is still very much copyrighted in the EU as well. According to Wikipedia, the music was composed by Albert von Tilzer († 1956) and the lyrics were written by Jack Norworth († 1959). Given that these dates are correct, it will enter PD status within the EU in 2030. Before that, a license has to be granted and paid for, otherwise it will be a violation of EU copyright law.

This is why I am still paying license fees for most of my 4-minute cylinder selections as well.


Thanks for the correction. Simple laziness on my part for assuming the authors were long dead.

Also, not to be overly pedantic, but I assume by "associated copyright", you meant "associated US copyright".

This cross-conflict happens all the time, in both directions. By "reverse" example, Rhapsody in Blue is copyrighted in the USA because it was published after 1923 and properly renewed. However, it is PD in Europe because Gershwin is the sole named author and he died more than 70 years ago.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "Take Me Out to the Ball Game"
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:31 pm 
Offline
Victor II
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:20 pm
Posts: 281
Location: Winfield,Mo
Without getting overly political and risking a ban, I'll just say look up the "Mickey Mouse Bill" (search what is in quotes), and you'll find out nothing on shellac record will be in the public domain in the US for almost another century at the least.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.