The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:02 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: early electric records sound quality
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:32 am 
Offline
Victor II
Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 2:03 pm
Posts: 318
ok if you have three records a scroll Victor an Okeh ,and a viva Tonal and they are all E- or better condition what is everyone’s opinion which sounds best?......my vote might be Columbia ..... unless you throw in electrically recorded DD or needle cut too then well ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: early electric records sound quality
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:43 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 1758
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Vinrage_mania wrote:
ok if you have three records a scroll Victor an Okeh ,and a viva Tonal and they are all E- or better condition what is everyone’s opinion which sounds best?......my vote might be Columbia ..... unless you throw in electrically recorded DD or needle cut too then well ;)


I have some early Columbia Flag label electrics and the sound plus quiet surface is astounding. OKeh has to be a close second.

I've always been WAY more impressed by Edison's acoustical records than the electrics. The DDs just allow too much side noise due to the vertical recording process and the Needle Types, while a nice curiosity, suffer from crappy shellac IMO.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: early electric records sound quality
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:32 pm 
Offline
Victor V
User avatar
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:52 pm
Posts: 2090
So many variables to be able to round up that neatly. Played on modern hi-fi kit...

The Victor might win in the bass. I had one going not that long ago, a record that was made in the Church Studio in Camden. Just loads of bass.

The Viva-Tonal for a liquid midrange.

Okeh for palpability. Some of the Viva-Tonals too.

Electric DD. The ones I have sound fine to me. I don't notice anything that outstanding. If I had a fraction of electric DD's as I had of the likes of Victor or Columbia, there might be more examples that I could cite as outstanding. Most DD's I've ever found 'in the wild' are acoustic.

I have a few of the Needle Cuts. As noted above, the sound is good, the shellac is another matter. Edison's earlier electric DD's in 1927-28 were made with General Electric recording gear. Switched to RCA in 1928.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: early electric records sound quality
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:21 pm 
Offline
Victor O
to own an electrola is a blessing
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:50 pm
Posts: 75
Location: northeast nj
Vinrage_mania wrote:
ok if you have three records a scroll Victor an Okeh ,and a viva Tonal and they are all E- or better condition what is everyone’s opinion which sounds best?......my vote might be Columbia ..... unless you throw in electrically recorded DD or needle cut too then well ;)

Here is an opinion purely personal:
My tastes are slanted because I like heavy bass.
For slightly over recorded bass..the Brunswick 4000 series.
For the best balance Victor (but the 1929-1930 Hal roach studios are delicious to listen to.)
For crispness (almost clinical sounding) Columbias but the quiet surface without the abrasives is nice when they are new but they do not stand up well on period machines even after changing the needle evert time

Only one very biased person's opinion!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: early electric records sound quality
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:31 pm 
Offline
Victor VI
I have good days...this might not be one of them
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:23 pm
Posts: 3805
Location: Albany NY
Many Viva Tonal records were made in a comparatively dead studio with little reverb or room tone. This can put the sound very "up front"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: early electric records sound quality
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:28 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 1758
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Wolfe wrote:
So many variables to be able to round up that neatly. Played on modern hi-fi kit...

The Victor might win in the bass. I had one going not that long ago, a record that was made in the Church Studio in Camden. Just loads of bass.

The Viva-Tonal for a liquid midrange.

Okeh for palpability. Some of the Viva-Tonals too.

Electric DD. The ones I have sound fine to me. I don't notice anything that outstanding. If I had a fraction of electric DD's as I had of the likes of Victor or Columbia, there might be more examples that I could cite as outstanding. Most DD's I've ever found 'in the wild' are acoustic.

I have a few of the Needle Cuts. As noted above, the sound is good, the shellac is another matter. Edison's earlier electric DD's in 1927-28 were made with General Electric recording gear. Switched to RCA in 1928.


If we're talking EARLY electrics (1925-early 26) there's no comparison to me It's Columbia.

Early Victors could be ridiculous. Jack Shilkret's "If You Knew Susie" and Whitey Kaufman's "Padelin' Madeline Home" with the FEEDBACK are not too great, for example. Yes, they had great bass after that but lots of them... especially West Coast records like Herman Kenin... had SO MUCH bass it turned to an annoying bassy crackle after a few playings on period equipment. Then there's the grainy shellac and the patented "hiss" towards the end on lots of them.

Brunswick and Vocalion? Light Ray recordings are often disappointing. King Oliver's "Wa Da Da" is a superb hot record and annoying as hell to listen to. High input is too high with no bass. That tended to happen a lot. Same with early Gennett red label "GE" recordings, "Emersonics", NML electrics, Silvertone "Truphonic", etc. These records suffer from all possible ailments- input too high, craptastic shellac, poor pressing- often off centered, etc. Paramount/ Broadway and Regal suffer from it too. Romeos didn't have the best shellac but the sound is OK.

I had ONE Marsh Labs "Autograph"... Lampe's Orchestra. It even sounded forced and strained on a windup. We could give them a pass since that was 1924 and Marsh was THE pioneer for commercial electrically recorded discs.

But next to the first electric Columbia (and OKeh to a great extent) all the others were just playing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: early electric records sound quality
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:00 pm 
Offline
Victor II
Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 2:03 pm
Posts: 318
I have some Mc Gregor both solle and ingrahm (these are Columbia ARC I think ) when they are in good shape these are real quiet and are indeed very up front sounding ...The bottom end on victor records is at times excessive ,but the 23000 and 24000 series are really nice sounding


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: early electric records sound quality
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:28 pm 
Offline
Victor O
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:24 pm
Posts: 98
Ditto what the others have stated in much better detail, especially concerning the earliest Columbia electrics. Case in point, Frank Ferera's St. Louis Blues (339-D) from March 10, 1925--only two weeks after Art Gillham's first electrics, sounding beautifully immediate: much better than the Columbians' sides from only three days previous (ok, unfair to compare recording a band and a Hawaiian guitar). Odd that there is not much else from March 1925 on the Columbia label: the electrics started in earnest around April 4th (guess who? Vernon Dalhart that's right!).

As to Victor, I recently listened to Marguerite Matzenauer's La Golondrina from March 19, 1925, and the carry-over acoustic-era orchestral accompaniment had a depth and immediacy that surprised me. Ditto for John McCormack's Moonlight and Roses from April 23rd with pizzicato coming through nicely (that probably wouldn't register well acoustically) and lush-sounding strings. One of the best early electrics that I can think of.

Not a fan of the Victor New York recordings from mid-1925: too constrained.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.