The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

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 Post subject: Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:10 pm 
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Victor V
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Needle Tins are Addictive
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As mentioned, the Tommy Johnson record commanded a high price, but the music isn't anything to write home about...

A lot of these very rare records only appeal to a tiny minority of collectors, so "Holy Grail" is a relative term... My Holy Grail records would be entirely different from various other collectors. I like multi colored Aeolian Vocalion records and puzzle records, so everyone has a different idea. Some of the records mentioned which were pressed, but not released and remain unfound might not actually be of any real interest other than the rarity.

Now, as far as Holy Grail machines go... I would love to find that cement Edison machine with the statue or one of the cement Diamond Disc machines... Wonder where they disappeared to?


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"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife
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 Post subject: Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:13 pm 
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Victor I
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"Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?" - Graham Chapman
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:45 pm
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The second edition of The Talking Machine: An Illustrated Compendium Has an entire section devoted to machines (most of which are quite rare, if not one of a kind). For example, the Berliner Phonograph doll. Berliner despised his machine being thought of as a toy, and minimized the number of units sold. The records, not to mention, our also quite rare.

Also in the book is a Columbia Q with a red celluloid horn. This is considered to be quite rare.

Much like other people have pointed out already, the definition of "holy grail" varies from collector to collector. I for example can't seem to find anything older than 1903 (machines, discs, cylinders, or otherwise) in my neck of the woods. A box of dirty Gold-Moulded records would be a holy grail for me (to find in the wild, where I am able to do all of my collecting), let alone a working machine to play them on :lol: .
To be fair, I haven't been collecting for an extensive amount of time.
SOUSA, The March King, says:

"Your 'VICTOR' and 'MONARCH' Records are all right."


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 Post subject: Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:02 pm 
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Victor II
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 3:46 pm
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
Thank you for all the input. Having only been collecting actively for a few years, I have much to learn.
"Your" holy grail is exactly what I'm asking for everyone to describe. Finding the most valuable discs is easy, I want to know what YOU want, and if there's a reason then why.

I'm not so much into the machines (I only own ten :lol: ) so I would appreciate it if the thread didn't move too far off topic.
Thank you.
The Berliner Archive Project:
Lend me your Berliners to be molded and get your originals back plus free copies!
See the current status here = http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32545


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 Post subject: Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:40 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
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Holy grail is the unattainable. Once you find it, it is not the holy grail anymore. Therefore, the Buddy Bolden and the Mark Twain cylinders, de Reszke discs fit in my definition, until you find them and demote them to simple rarities ...


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 Post subject: Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:13 am 
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Victor V
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Needle Tins are Addictive
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Back on topic... Puzzle records are hard to find and interesting for their technical achievement (at least to me) and might be an interesting type to make. If you are not sure what a puzzle record is, it is a record with concentric grooves and multiple playing choices on each side which play randomly depending on where the needle is dropped...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9_VGYL-mzo
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:56 pm 
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Victor IV
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donniej wrote:
Thank you for all the input. Having only been collecting actively for a few years, I have much to learn.
"Your" holy grail is exactly what I'm asking for everyone to describe. Finding the most valuable discs is easy, I want to know what YOU want, and if there's a reason then why.



As someone who enjoys opera records, I'd like to ever find some Fonotipia discs "in the wild." I've only found one. Sure, they are found on auction lists, if you want to lay out the cash for them. But they never seem to turn up in my neck o' the woods, amid the boundless Victor Red Seals and Columbias, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:06 pm 
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Victor II
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:20 pm
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Location: Winfield,Mo
Any military marches from wartime Germany or any 78s of speeches by any of the leaders of WWII.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:12 pm 
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Victor V
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Location: Near NY's Capital
Wolfe wrote:
As someone who enjoys opera records, I'd like to ever find some Fonotipia discs "in the wild." I've only found one. Sure, they are found on auction lists, if you want to lay out the cash for them. But they never seem to turn up in my neck o' the woods, amid the boundless Victor Red Seals and Columbias, etc.


Being a little closer to NYC, I have found those around here. One collection I bought in it's entirety had well over 300 of them in it and I still run into them from time to time. They seem to be more easily available in the greater NYC area.

Sean


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 Post subject: Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:51 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
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GrafonolaG50 wrote:
Any military marches from wartime Germany or any 78s of speeches by any of the leaders of WWII.

Churchill's speeches can be found, I have a set of them, as well as George VI's. Petain and Leclerc records also show up for sale now and them, and I bought a Mussolini record made in the US before the war, addressing the italians living in the US. Nazi discs are nowhere to be found, one of the reasons being that their commercialization is forbidden in Germany, and, I think, most were destroyed (or well hidden) after the war. You can find Stalin's speeches also, in Soviet official labels, as it was probably mandatory to have them at home. There are discs of the First War also, some years ago I passed on a Kaiser record that looked very nice with the German eagle but the price was too high. You can also find WWI German marches, but WWII are very scarce.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:51 pm 
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Victor IV
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I did find an infamous "holy grail" of sorts a few years ago at the APS show. It was at Charlie Hummel's tables. It was a very fancy decorated book with gold leaf and embossing, etc. It was a large, coffee table type of book. I didn't take any pics of it, but I think it had swastikas on it. It was in German and all about Hitler. In the back were a collection of Hitler speeches on ten inch records. I believe it was dated 1933. I think Charlie said it was a book that elites in the Third Reich got for being members of the Nazi party.


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