The "Holy Grail" of....???

Discussions on Records, Recording, & Artists
donniej
Victor III
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 3:46 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

The "Holy Grail" of....???

Post by donniej »

This term has come up many times, sometimes referring to Berliners, Black Patti's or even certain songs, like the Paul Whiteman or CA Ramblers versions of Charleston. Please help me try to understand the different genres of early recorded music. What are the "Holy Grails" of the different labels and songs?
Thank you.

User avatar
Wolfe
Victor V
Posts: 2755
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:52 pm

Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???

Post by Wolfe »

A Buddy Bolden cylinder. Allegedly made but never found.

Check out this list of "lost" recordings. https://www.loc.gov/programs/national-r ... ding-list/

Some are more holy grail-ish than others. Like the Patton and Lee sides vs. Frank Sinatra, for instance. Nothing against Sinatra, but he has thousands of other recordings extant.

There are other blues records made for Paramount that were known to have been issued but haven't been discovered in even one copy.

User avatar
RolandVV-360
Victor II
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:57 pm
Personal Text: The Finest Gift of All!
Location: Central Virginia
Contact:

Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???

Post by RolandVV-360 »

Another example would be the Edison Lateral, "Sunny Skies", by The Piccadilly Players. This record was never released and is stored in the Edison Archives. It has been released on a CD after digitizing and professional noise reduction, but owning a copy of this record is unheard of. The Diamond Disc of this song, on DD 52478-L, can be found sometimes on a rare occasion, for $50-200.
PHONOGRAPH, n. An irritating toy that restores life to dead noises. -Ambrose Bierce

-Roland

User avatar
Curt A
Victor Monarch Special
Posts: 6412
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Personal Text: Needle Tins are Addictive
Location: Belmont, North Carolina

Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???

Post by Curt A »

Most recordings by Al Starita or Jack Hylton and his Kit Kat Band or Picadilly Revels are great and hard to find... HOT jazz/dance...

Magnolia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtKlGPVTyN0
Nashville Nightingale: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPnepKtBvCk
Brown Sugar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XOm7p-ytv0
Crazy Words, Crazy Tune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPxWBuv2c-M
Ain't She Sweet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAEjRjG3g4Q
My Cutie's Due at Two to Two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjTjnVjT4v0
No. 10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Hq1mIr9tM
Sunday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqBsv8Jml-E
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife

epigramophone
Victor Monarch Special
Posts: 5204
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Personal Text: An analogue relic trapped in a digital world.
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.

Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???

Post by epigramophone »

The two recordings made by Jean de Reszke for Fonotipia in Paris on 22nd April 1905. Although they were given catalogue numbers and advertised as forthcoming issues they never appeared. The story is that de Reszke was dissatisfied with them and vetoed their release, but what happened to the test pressings?

CarlosV
Victor IV
Posts: 1835
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Location: Luxembourg

Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???

Post by CarlosV »

The cylinders that Louis Armstrong recorded for Melrose that were used for the transcriptions of the Hot Choruses music book.

User avatar
Polyphone
Victor II
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:40 pm
Personal Text: There is a fine line between clever and stupid

Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???

Post by Polyphone »

Here is a great example of the holy grail: http://www.popsike.com/RARE-TOMMY-JOHNS ... 25287.html

I also know of two very early operatic 78's that were in excess of $50,000 each. I can't release the info as they were private sales.

User avatar
RolandVV-360
Victor II
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:57 pm
Personal Text: The Finest Gift of All!
Location: Central Virginia
Contact:

Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???

Post by RolandVV-360 »

Polyphone wrote:Here is a great example of the holy grail: http://www.popsike.com/RARE-TOMMY-JOHNS ... 25287.html
I think I can speak for most collectors in saying that this record isn't worth very much just to listen to, unless by some odd miracle you enjoy that song. Although it does hold value because it is a rare very early blues record, which there is a small (but high paying) market for.
PHONOGRAPH, n. An irritating toy that restores life to dead noises. -Ambrose Bierce

-Roland

User avatar
Wolfe
Victor V
Posts: 2755
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:52 pm

Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???

Post by Wolfe »

John Tefteller bought that Tommy Johnson record. Tefteller's Blues Images concern puts out some very good sounding CD's of early blues records.

http://bluesimages.com/

It should be noted that it wasn't until probably 1950's - 60's that early blues records were considered holy grail material by most collectors.

52089
Victor VI
Posts: 3745
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm

Re: The "Holy Grail" of....???

Post by 52089 »

donniej wrote:This term has come up many times, sometimes referring to Berliners, Black Patti's or even certain songs, like the Paul Whiteman or CA Ramblers versions of Charleston. Please help me try to understand the different genres of early recorded music. What are the "Holy Grails" of the different labels and songs?
Thank you.
You might want to look through the back auction catalogs on Kurt Nauck's 78rpm.com site. He does not release a "prices realized" list, but the minimum bids shown will give you some idea of what's really valuable.

Post Reply