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 Post subject: Shaving Concert cylinders
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:40 pm 
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Victor II
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Location: Louisiana
I was curious, do any of you record or shave on concert size cylinders? How do you get them to have a good surface? Shaving them on the machine takes forever, and maybe it’s just me being new at shaving them, but I find myself constantly adjusting the cutter to keep the machine from stopping. I heard you can use naphtha or something like that to “shave” them but that makes me nervous and I’m unsure if that would give me a good surface to record on.
J.F.


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 Post subject: Re: Shaving Concert cylinders
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:13 am 
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Victor V
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Naphtha (or similar petroleum distillates) has been used in field recordings, where a shaving machine is not available; but it will not leave a first-class surface.

It may, however, suffice for initial rough shaving, and leaving the final surface for the sapphire blade. If anyone has tried this two-stage method, please respond with your results.

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Shaving Concert cylinders
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:21 am 
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Victor II
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Location: Louisiana
I’m guessing lighter fluid would do the same?

I may try this today and post results. I’m wondering how to properly adjust the shaver on the machine however. Usually you push it in till it just touches and go from there, but the brown wax isn’t always even and sometimes it slows the machine down to stopping it. Takes so long to get an initial shaving that’s not good in the end.
J.F.


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 Post subject: Re: Shaving Concert cylinders
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:10 am 
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Victor IV
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A new blank with authentic formula and spiral core!
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:50 am
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Location: 615 1/2 South Main Street Princeton IL 61356.
You should NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER be shaving any original concert records. New concert blanks are available from Paul Morris. Technology is growing every day. Concert records are pretty rare to begin with, many of them are live, one of a kind recordings. On the horizon is analytical technology which will not only be able to optically 3-D scan the cylinder surface, it will be able to do a comparative analysis and be able to calculate the musical and frequency portions only and ignore the surface noise. I myself hav cleaned some really horrible looking brown wax, that had .005" of powdery white mold on the surface, and was able to clean it up enough with labtone and distilled water to play the cylinder, and discern what was on it. I know collectors with zeal just to be spiteful, have increased the destruction of our recorded history in the last few years :evil:


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 Post subject: Re: Shaving Concert cylinders
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:00 am 
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Victor III
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In general, Shawn is absolutely right. If there was even a small chance that some relevant information were left, I would also not opt for shaving down an original recording. But it really depends on the record.

Btw. Labtone alone may clean well but a wipe with 70% IPA (not higher) is especially necessary when mold is involved. Labtone itself is just a cleaning agent based on minerals. And minerals can be a neat food source for mold spores.
Unlike IPA, Labtone does not kill any mold. So, what may look like a nice cleaning job one day could potentially destroy a wax cylinder in the long run, if not treated with alcohol afterwards - unless you keep the storage conditions at a stable temperature and humidity 24/7, which most of us cannot provide. 90% IPA will not work because the mold spores require approx. 30% water to open, so that the alcohol can reach and kill them.


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 Post subject: Re: Shaving Concert cylinders
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:00 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
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Location: Grosse Pointe, MI
WDC wrote:
In general, Shawn is absolutely right. If there was even a small chance that some relevant information were left, I would also not opt for shaving down an original recording. But it really depends on the record.

Btw. Labtone alone may clean well but a wipe with 70% IPA (not higher) is especially necessary when mold is involved. Labtone itself is just a cleaning agent based on minerals. And minerals can be a neat food source for mold spores.
Unlike IPA, Labtone does not kill any mold. So, what may look like a nice cleaning job one day could potentially destroy a wax cylinder in the long run, if not treated with alcohol afterwards - unless you keep the storage conditions at a stable temperature and humidity 24/7, which most of us cannot provide. 90% IPA will not work because the mold spores require approx. 30% water to open, so that the alcohol can reach and kill them.



IPA?

Means Isopropyl Alcohol??? India Pale Ale???

TYVM!


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 Post subject: Re: Shaving Concert cylinders
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:54 pm 
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Victor II
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It’s an original blank...not one with a song. I would never shave an original one with a song. This one was already blank but the surface isn’t smooth, has a lot of surface noise and would like to get a good surface to record on.
J.F.


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 Post subject: Re: Shaving Concert cylinders
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:14 am 
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Victor III
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Glad to hear it's a blank. The results I once had with turpentine (substitute) on a standard size blank was adequate but not really good. After 3 wipes the surface became too uneven and would cause some nasty resonance with the recorder.

What I once have seen but never tried myself, was using a long exacto knife blade to take off the whole surface area at once while having the record turning on the mandrel. In your case, you will likely need to hook up a more powerful motor, such as a drill or electric fan. But it may work better than wiping.


JerryVan wrote:
IPA?

Means Isopropyl Alcohol??? India Pale Ale???

TYVM!


Yes, also known as 2-propanol. But if you can find a 70% India Pale, I'd be happy to give it a try. Image


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 Post subject: Re: Shaving Concert cylinders
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:19 am 
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Victor IV
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A new blank with authentic formula and spiral core!
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:50 am
Posts: 1323
Location: 615 1/2 South Main Street Princeton IL 61356.
I am glad it was a blank already. At Homer Harvest days, i showed the owner of the Triumph model B how to shave on his machine,on the Triumph shaver, you carefully release the lock lever and first look for the highest point, if any on the blanks and while the carriage is in the down position, push the button, softly down to the surface of the cylinder, (the reproducer should be removoved). Next bring the lift lever up, and start the machine, and shave like you are playing a cylinder, very light passes and many get the best results. The surface of the Triumph shaved cylinder, was even and sounded quite good. I understand that many of the Edison Concerts have the knurled knob like a Home model. So with the carriage in the down position, adjust the shaver down to near the surface of the cylinder, and then adjust down and see if any cuts, and then slowly down, so that it just barely shaves anything, and adjusting down 1/8th or ¼ turn at a time, otherwise it will gouge the blank and ruin it. It takes forever and makes a mess but does work it takes practice and patients, and lots and lots of patients. :mrgreen:


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