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 Post subject: "Voice Grafting" Caruso
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:09 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:12 pm
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Came upon this -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTX0MNxohw0 -- today. I've listened to a few of the recordings, and wasn't all that impressed. Caruso's voice, though strong, still sounds acoustically recorded, while the orchestra sounds electrically recorded.

OrthoFan

(I do enjoy seeing the gramophone equipped with the early "rigid arm" -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/Design%20Features.htm -- in action!)


Last edited by OrthoFan on Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "Voice Grafting" Caruso
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:22 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
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I have the same impression, these records sound odd, with Caruso's voice buried under the orchestra. I much prefer the original fully acoustic recordings.


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 Post subject: Re: "Voice Grafting" Caruso
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:23 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:28 pm
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Location: Scotland
The only other singer subjected to this treatment was Luisa Tetrazzini. Unlike the Carusos, her reprocessed discs seldom turn up.


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 Post subject: Re: "Voice Grafting" Caruso
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:33 pm 
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Victor IV
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The technicians in that film are all British, yet the '32 'grafting' of Caruso's Vesti la Giubba was made by Victor in Camden, NJ. The earliest of that (issued) series of records were made in Camden in '32. The remaining were made by HMV, Hayes. There was an earlier attempt in 1927, but none were issued.

Most are unsatisfactory to listen to, but there are a few that are passable.

Funny, they used the most worn out sounding disc for the comparison demo in the film, and they did the same for the modern version of this practice that was a CD called Caruso 2000. IIRC, they stuck a dub of a un-filtered, un-summed to mono, worn out original record of Vesti la Giubba at the end of the CD for "comparison."


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 Post subject: Re: "Voice Grafting" Caruso
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:23 am 
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Victor IV
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
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neilmack wrote:
The only other singer subjected to this treatment was Luisa Tetrazzini. Unlike the Carusos, her reprocessed discs seldom turn up.


Only two Tetrazzini recordings were subjected to the electrical re-creation treatment. They were "Una voce poco fa" and "Caro nome" coupled on HMV DB1979. No doubt HMV were hoping to emulate the commercial success of the Caruso re-creations, but as no more were issued I assume that DB1979 was not a big seller, hence it's comparative rarity today. I have owned a copy for many years, but have not seen many others.


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 Post subject: Re: "Voice Grafting" Caruso
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:19 pm 
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Victor IV
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And here's Tetrazzini singing along with a 'grafted' Caruso record in 1932. Caruso's 1917 version of M'appari, which is actually one of the better of the grafted records. https://youtu.be/FMXScCik6Jo


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 Post subject: Re: "Voice Grafting" Caruso
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:28 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Scotland
OrthoFan wrote:
Came upon this -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTX0MNxohw0 -- today. I've listened to a few of the recordings, and wasn't all that impressed. Caruso's voice, though strong, still sounds acoustically recorded, while the orchestra sounds electrically recorded.

OrthoFan

(I do enjoy seeing the gramophone equipped with the early "rigid arm" -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/Design%20Features.htm -- in action!)


In the film the Caruso disc is introduced as being made in 1905. But both of Caruso's earlier recordings of this piece were accompanied by piano - it would make more sense for the electrical recreation' to be of the 12" orchestra-accompanied version of 1907.


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 Post subject: Re: "Voice Grafting" Caruso
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:01 pm 
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Victor IV
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The 1907 is the one that was used. Copies of that particular electrical remake are everywhere, as is the Celeste Aida.

The people in the film just got it wrong is all. Not to assign too much blame, because I think that might have been pre-internet when that was filmed.


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 Post subject: Re: "Voice Grafting" Caruso
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:31 am 
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Victor III
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Location: Hilperton, Deepest Darkest Wiltshire, UK
neilmack wrote:
OrthoFan wrote:
Came upon this -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTX0MNxohw0 -- today. I've listened to a few of the recordings, and wasn't all that impressed. Caruso's voice, though strong, still sounds acoustically recorded, while the orchestra sounds electrically recorded.

OrthoFan

(I do enjoy seeing the gramophone equipped with the early "rigid arm" -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/Design%20Features.htm -- in action!)


In the film the Caruso disc is introduced as being made in 1905. But both of Caruso's earlier recordings of this piece were accompanied by piano - it would make more sense for the electrical recreation' to be of the 12" orchestra-accompanied version of 1907.


I don't agree. I think if you were trying to graft an acoustic recording onto a new orchestral accompanyment you would want as little else as possible on the acoustic recording apart from the singer. If the acoustic recording is already with an orchestra I think it would be more difficult to successfully graft this onto a new orchestral arrangement.


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 Post subject: Re: "Voice Grafting" Caruso
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:55 am 
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Victor IV
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
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Location: UK
Wearing headphones through which he could hear the original recording, the conductor had the difficult task of making the new orchestra follow the original exactly. During any long orchestral passages the original recording was shut off, leaving the new orchestra on their own. No wonder the new orchestra was not always perfectly synchronised with the old.


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