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 Post subject: Pathé records on modern turntable?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:58 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:49 pm
Posts: 167
What kind of cartridge do I need to be able to play American Pathé discs on a new turntable? (not the centre-start ones, but the type with paper labels and various sizes from 10-13 inches) LP and standard 78 cartridges both do nothing, which I guess I expected since the needle just surfs along the top of the groove...

Also is there any easy way to tell what the speed of the record should be? The turntable can play 78, 80, and 90 rpm, but the records aren't marked as to which is which.


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé records on modern turntable?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Victor V
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:52 pm
Posts: 2131
For vertically cut Pathés you can use potentially use any cartridge as long as it is wired for vertical playback, like Diamond Discs require. There is a recommended custom stylus for Pathés that is 8.0 mil. I've never bothered to buy one of those. After fiddling around with various carts and styluses I've actually obtained good results with this common Shure : https://www.amazon.com/Shure-M78S-Groov ... B000246SZK

It sounds good and holds the groove pretty well without skipping, unlike other styluses that I've tried. You might have to play with anti-skating on your turntable. But it needs to be wired for vertical playback, so swap the negative leads on he back of the cart.

In my case, since I've purchased the nifty Re-Equalizer III, I'm freed of the tyranny of re-wiring cartridges and can now just flip a switch ! https://www.esotericsound.com/elect.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé records on modern turntable?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:14 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:49 pm
Posts: 167
Wolfe wrote:
it needs to be wired for vertical playback, so swap the negative leads on he back of the cart.


Thanks! That makes a lot of sense, and I already have that exact cartridge, but wired laterally of course. My initial thought was that the stylus was too narrow to even register the grooves.


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé records on modern turntable?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:24 pm 
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Victor V
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:52 pm
Posts: 2131
A vertical Pathé record shouldn't have much or any information to pick up in the lateral plane, only vertical. So as long as the stylus doesn't skip out of it's shallow groove you're good to go. Also, in addition to re-wiring the cart, your signal from the turntable needs to be summed to mono - assuming you don't already have a mono switch on your amp. So a couple of Y cords (2 female connected to 1 male and 1 female to two male) between turntable RCA outs and the cable leading into your amp turntable input would accomplish the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé records on modern turntable?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:55 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:49 pm
Posts: 167
The M78S is already mono, does that have any effect? Both stereo channels are identical, and it's easy to see why since there's a jumper cable connecting the would-be left and right channels at the back of the cartridge.


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé records on modern turntable?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:07 pm 
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Victor V
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Posts: 2131
I think you would need to remove that jumper, as the cart needs to be wired out of phase.

I should amend my post, when I was talking about the Shure cart, I meant it's stylus. I use the green Shure stylus with the Shure 97xE cart. Not that it makes that much difference. So, see if you can take off the jumper. Refer to this old thread, too, if need be :

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7302


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé records on modern turntable?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:49 pm
Posts: 167
I figured it would be something like that. I inherited many thousands of 78s, including a box of Pathés and a couple of other vertical oddballs, I'll probably just separate out the vertical discs and play through those at the end.


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé records on modern turntable?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Victor V
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I'm Feeling Cranky
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:22 pm
Posts: 2746
Location: Finger Lakes Territory, RONYC
Wolfe wrote:
For vertically cut Pathés you can use potentially use any cartridge as long as it is wired for vertical playback, like Diamond Discs require. There is a recommended custom stylus for Pathés that is 8.0 mil. I've never bothered to buy one of those. After fiddling around with various carts and styluses I've actually obtained good results with this common Shure : https://www.amazon.com/Shure-M78S-Groov ... B000246SZK

It sounds good and holds the groove pretty well without skipping, unlike other styluses that I've tried. You might have to play with anti-skating on your turntable. But it needs to be wired for vertical playback, so swap the negative leads on he back of the cart.

In my case, since I've purchased the nifty Re-Equalizer III, I'm freed of the tyranny of re-wiring cartridges and can now just flip a switch ! https://www.esotericsound.com/elect.htm

Ooooo, I like that Re-Equalizer III! Great! Another goodie goes on the shopping list... :lol:

Happy Holidays!

Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé records on modern turntable?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Victor V
User avatar
I'm Feeling Cranky
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:22 pm
Posts: 2746
Location: Finger Lakes Territory, RONYC
Wolfe wrote:
I think you would need to remove that jumper, as the cart needs to be wired out of phase.

I should amend my post, when I was talking about the Shure cart, I meant it's stylus. I use the green Shure stylus with the Shure 97xE cart. Not that it makes that much difference. So, see if you can take off the jumper. Refer to this old thread, too, if need be :

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7302

That's exactly what I use for either of my stereo systems. I have 2 carts mounted in separate sleds -- 1 wired for vertical, and the other wired for horizontal -- for my 2 DUAL TT's (a 1229 & 1218).

A very user convenient setup.

Happy Holidays!

Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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