The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Nice to see you all. I'm new to the forum and relatively new to the antique gramophone game. I have a couple of jim dandy machines by Bush & Lane that I've returned to good working order, now it's just a matter of getting the records I'd like to listen to on them.

What are some tips and potential difficulties I could hope to avoid if I am looking to amass a collection of early ragtime and Tin Pan Alley standard and novelty records ranging from the aughts to the teens? I really don't want to go much past nineteen twenty or so.

Greetings Alastair from one newb to another! I've only done the Victrola, phonograph, and old record game since I was sixteen but it's the most enjoyable hobby I've ever sampled.

Well, for a good start, check out Don Wilson's replica Berliner records--"7" Copies Update" is the name of the thread where he is selling them. They can get you some tunes from the nineteen-oughts and even earlier in some cases. Then I would start checking around for good 78s.

I like ragtime. A lot. So to buy it on records I usually choose "batwing" Victor 78s, the old "Common, Boring" kind. They wear like iron and are usually mixed in a good big pile of records at a bookstore. Anything with "One Step," "Two Step," or "Turkey Trot" is the sort of record you want.

Oh, quartets used to rag pretty good. I suggest a harmonious understanding of quartets of the early 1900s (bad pun) as when they weren't singing about the flowers and love and what have you, they were singing rags, often very funny ones.

Look at the gramophone in front of Nipper on a Victor record--if the gramophone says VICTOR on the side in capital letters, then it's a 1914-1916 pressing. If the patent date on the bottom of a batwing record is 1908, then it's a 1917-1925 record. If it says VICTOR RECORD, then it's pre-1913. Those are a treat. Mind you, the humble batwing label can be found in its 1920s variations with tracks recorded in the early 1900s, as Victor kept their good records in the catalogue.

I also suggest that, if you think you will find ragtime piano records, that you might wish to loosen the purse strings and prepare to have a tiny record collection. Early records don't do piano very well always, and the piano didn't actually take that great. There are notable exceptions. Felix Arndt (Desecration Rag, Nola, others) is a classic 1910s pianist of the most ragged variety. However, these records aren't entirely common--I have never seen one but you know what's happening when I do!

Another good way to get ragtime is to buy band-music medleys marked "For Dancing." Guess what, military bands love rags.

Old popular songs are mostly ragtime. It was the permeating atmosphere of the early 1900s and 1910s in music and I only wish it was more common. Ah well, that's why they still make records.

Have Fun & Good Luck!

Welcome to a never ending quest for the perfect genre... hopefully you will find what you like before you have hundreds of pounds of shellac stacked in various crates, etc.
By the way, my favorite era is from 1925 to 1931 - jazz and dance...

Welcome!

I know good early records are harder to find "in the wild" these days; but make a habit of cruising "junky" antique stores, flea markets, and Craigslist postings, and you might find some good stuff. (Always check the bins of 45s, in case you might find a stray 7 inch Berliner or something.)

Some artists to look for: Vess Ossman and Fred Van Eps did some great ragtime banjo; Arthur Pryor's band has some good rags as well, some of his own composition; Collins & Harlan did great "coon" songs - well, you get the drift.

Are either of those Bush & Lane machines "Duo-Vox" models? If so, you can add some Diamond Discs to your collection. (The wartime discs, between @1915 - 1919, can be very uneven in sound quality, though: if you're willing to stretch your window of time, the paper labels of the '20s have some great dance band stuff).

Bill

Both of my machines are Duo-Vox so I am set up for both kinds of disks. Thank you all for your help. Always happy to learn more.

Something worth noting is that you can find ragtime music labeled as a "Fox Trot" prior to 1918 or so. The primary groups that recorded this type of late ragtime are the Victor Military Band, Conway's Band, and Sousa's band on Victor, and Prince's Band/ Orchestra on Columbia. I find this late ragtime particularly interesting since it often encompasses some early Jazz motifs. For instance, I have included a link to the Victor Military Band playing the Kansas City Blues. While it is blues, it is played in the style of ragtime, which is an interesting style that was only popular for a short period of time.

[youtubehd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX9YhiOdXgU[/youtubehd]

Stephen