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 Post subject: Reproduction 78 Issues On Front Mounts
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 3:46 pm
Posts: 559
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Recently two people have mentioned that while playing one of my 7" discs on machines with unusually heavy, fixed tone arms that the discs have worn rapidly. Since two people mentioned it, I wanted to ask if anyone else has experienced this? The signs are the disc's grooves greying as it's being played. My testing has been successful with 150 grams (~5 ounces) of pressure on the needle at up to 85*F. With a few hundred discs out in collectors hands, I wanted to make sure that my test results are similar to those of the people who are using them.

If anyone here has experienced any such issues, I'd sincerely appreciate your feedback, and if willing, your assistance in testing so I can address such issues.

Thank you.
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See the current status here = http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32545


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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction 78 Issues On Front Mounts
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Victor III
I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Posts: 584
Location: South Carolina
Donnie J,

I experimented (because I should have known better but did it anyway) with playing "Maple Leaf Rag" on a 1922-'23 Brunswick console with a very much unrebuilt Ultona head, by way of testing the machinery.

I used a thorn from a honey locust tree as a needle, not having a proper gramophone needle. The grooves began to deposit a residue on the needle, the tip of which wore down very rapidly.

These records are about like dime-store labels of the mid-1920s, I think...the coolest titles but not made for thorn needles. I have a 1927 Lincoln record that refuses to take a thorn stylus, so I play it on a 1914 Victrola XIV with a steel. You don't have an abrasive in the discs (which is the best trait of these new discs, aside from their fair pricing and good selection) and that's what causes the problem.

Needless to say, my record has been shelved until the phonograph is restored. Currently it is incapable of playing anything, as the mechanism is scattered to kingdom come and the cabinet is undergoing a heavy restoration.

When it is fixed, I certainly will play it using steel needles, setting the needle on the inside grooves to break it in as per the Victrola owner's manual before starting the record.

The only other precaution is, on the Victrola I will open up the doors and on the Brunswick, push the volume handle all the way in. I like to air out my phonographs now and then with a good ragtime record and find that they need frequent airings indeed!

Keep up the good work, sir, and count on the Forum for support. I haven't purchased other discs yet but would certainly like to in the future, as I consider them comparable in quality to a mint 1910s Victor batwing (my standard of recording perfection.)


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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction 78 Issues On Front Mounts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:39 pm 
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Victor V
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Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:23 am
Posts: 2180
Location: NW Indiana B-19;VV-IV; VV-VI;VV-XVI; Edison Home B; Amberola 30; Col. BK; Magnola;
I have not noticed any problems when playing them on the Magnola Talking Machine, the early style VV-VI. The VV-VIII arm did scoot across the record and made a grey mark on the record (Take me out to the Ballgame), not causing any damage other than the grey scratch across the record.

I think it may depend on the machine, but I am not sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction 78 Issues On Front Mounts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:24 pm 
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Victor V
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Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:23 am
Posts: 2180
Location: NW Indiana B-19;VV-IV; VV-VI;VV-XVI; Edison Home B; Amberola 30; Col. BK; Magnola;
My copy of "Maple Leaf Rag" came in today. I played it on both the VV-VI and the VV-VIII and it plays great with NO wear or damage to the record.

Don has done a great job on making these 78's available, keep up the great work.

Jerry


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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction 78 Issues On Front Mounts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:18 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1950
Location: Harrison Township, MI
Are the folks who are having trouble, using a new needle to play them? I'm guessing that your new records do not have the abrasive qualities of the old records to hone the needles to their grooves. Therefore, a needle used on an original record, even once, may have a shape that is not complimentary to the new record groove, and the new record will not "correct" it, but may instead be damaged by it. Just a theory...


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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction 78 Issues On Front Mounts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:43 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 3:46 pm
Posts: 559
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Thanks for the input guys. Both people (both of who I have tremendous faith in) were using new steel needles. These were not Victors but machines with much heavier, fixed tonearms. I've tried to reproduce the issue on my Standard Talking Machine but even with a heavier Ultona reproducer I've not had it happen.
I've not heard of any issues with machines with "two piece" tone arms, such as Victor\Victrola.
The Berliner Archive Project:
Lend me your Berliners to be molded and get your originals back plus free copies!
See the current status here = http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32545


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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction 78 Issues On Front Mounts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:39 pm 
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Victor VI
I have good days...this might not be one of them
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:23 pm
Posts: 3857
Location: Albany NY
I've played mine on a Victor R. Two of my discs are some of your earlier productions & there seemed to be a bit of residue on the needle, I have had better results with your more recent discs. It may be a variation in your resin mix, or perhaps a trace of what ever releasing agent you have in the mold.


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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction 78 Issues On Front Mounts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:12 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 3:46 pm
Posts: 559
Location: Philadelphia, PA
The resin blend is much closer to shellac than in the beginning, part of it is the chemical composition and part of it was making the investment in a heated pressure chamber. I'm always trying to improve, hence this post 8-)
The Berliner Archive Project:
Lend me your Berliners to be molded and get your originals back plus free copies!
See the current status here = http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32545


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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction 78 Issues On Front Mounts
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 3:46 pm
Posts: 559
Location: Philadelphia, PA
A short video on the improvements I've recently made, as well as some testing under half a pound of weight...

https://youtu.be/sqplNFTNUDg
The Berliner Archive Project:
Lend me your Berliners to be molded and get your originals back plus free copies!
See the current status here = http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32545


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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction 78 Issues On Front Mounts
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:13 pm 
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Victor III
I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Posts: 584
Location: South Carolina
Most impressive! I didn't know the old Standard Talking Machine could handle the strain without bogging down.


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