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 Post subject: Re: Pathé record question.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:41 am 
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Victor V
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Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
An elucidation on the virtues of the sapphire ball... :D


Thank you for sharing... the sound of the Actuelle is quite impressive !

:)
De Soto Frank


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé record question.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:43 pm 
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Victor I
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My first spring-driven machine--acquired two or three months after I started collecting 78s, when I was in junior high school, and which I still have--was a Pathé Model 100 upright. The cabinet was filled with a bunch of Pathé records, including the demonstration disk. That line about how "I will live to speak to your grandchildren" is a classic and sets the record apart from any other demo disk I've ever heard. Thanks for the link, a reminder of a nearly life-long friend.

What the machine did not have was a sapphire ball stylus; the dealer from whom I got it was playing it with steel needles--and, sadly, had done so with the demonstration record, which was quite the worse for the experience. Happily, I did ultimately manage to scare up a sapphire ball, and years later I found another copy of the record in better shape. In those days, long before the internet, turning up the replacement sapphire ball proved to be quite a trick!

I should add that among the Pathé disks were a few later interlopers, including vinyl pressings of "Bony Maronie" and "Great Balls of Fire," of all things. These also had not fared well under the heavy tracking force of the Pathé reproducer fitted with a steel needle.

Returning to the text of the demo record, "The Pathé repertoire of recordings is acknowledged to be the finest in the world." Maybe this would be better as a separate thread, but: what do you in the popular record collecting world think of that claim? I'm a classical/opera collector, and I've found that Pathé did have a terrific catalogue of singers, many, not having had the benefit of Victor's marketing machine or Edison's name cachet (at least here in the States), now lost names except to specialists, but my impression is that on the popular side Pathé's offerings were pretty weak beer compared to what the lateral labels had in their stables. Hmmmm...a world's record for mixed metaphors?


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé record question.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 1634
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
drh wrote:
My first spring-driven machine--acquired two or three months after I started collecting 78s, when I was in junior high school, and which I still have--was a Pathé Model 100 upright. The cabinet was filled with a bunch of Pathé records, including the demonstration disk. That line about how "I will live to speak to your grandchildren" is a classic and sets the record apart from any other demo disk I've ever heard. Thanks for the link, a reminder of a nearly life-long friend.

What the machine did not have was a sapphire ball stylus; the dealer from whom I got it was playing it with steel needles--and, sadly, had done so with the demonstration record, which was quite the worse for the experience. Happily, I did ultimately manage to scare up a sapphire ball, and years later I found another copy of the record in better shape. In those days, long before the internet, turning up the replacement sapphire ball proved to be quite a trick!

I should add that among the Pathé disks were a few later interlopers, including vinyl pressings of "Bony Maronie" and "Great Balls of Fire," of all things. These also had not fared well under the heavy tracking force of the Pathé reproducer fitted with a steel needle.

Returning to the text of the demo record, "The Pathé repertoire of recordings is acknowledged to be the finest in the world." Maybe this would be better as a separate thread, but: what do you in the popular record collecting world think of that claim? I'm a classical/opera collector, and I've found that Pathé did have a terrific catalogue of singers, many, not having had the benefit of Victor's marketing machine or Edison's name cachet (at least here in the States), now lost names except to specialists, but my impression is that on the popular side Pathé's offerings were pretty weak beer compared to what the lateral labels had in their stables. Hmmmm...a world's record for mixed metaphors?


I think the answer to that would be that popular music wasn't really taken seriously by the music world or record buying public at large then. The reason one finds so many classical selections from that period and even into the 40s in such nice condition was because record collectors of that period collected and treasured just that. Jazz and blues and vaudeville records were "fun" but a supposed passing fancy.

It wasn't really until Paul Whiteman began promoting Gershwin, Grofe, and Suesse that jazz and pop started really permeating the serious record buying consciousness... and don't forget that the Aeolian Hall "Rhapsody In Blue" recital wasn't until Feb. 1924, as part of a recital called "An Experiment In Modern Music".

True jazz really didn't break through to more sophisticated audiences until Benny Goodman's Carnegie Hall concert in January 1938.


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé record question.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:25 pm 
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Victor I
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gramophone-georg wrote:
drh wrote:
...Returning to the text of the demo record, "The Pathé repertoire of recordings is acknowledged to be the finest in the world." Maybe this would be better as a separate thread, but: what do you in the popular record collecting world think of that claim? I'm a classical/opera collector, and I've found that Pathé did have a terrific catalogue of singers, many, not having had the benefit of Victor's marketing machine or Edison's name cachet (at least here in the States), now lost names except to specialists, but my impression is that on the popular side Pathé's offerings were pretty weak beer compared to what the lateral labels had in their stables. Hmmmm...a world's record for mixed metaphors?


I think the answer to that would be that popular music wasn't really taken seriously by the music world or record buying public at large then. The reason one finds so many classical selections from that period and even into the 40s in such nice condition was because record collectors of that period collected and treasured just that. Jazz and blues and vaudeville records were "fun" but a supposed passing fancy.

It wasn't really until Paul Whiteman began promoting Gershwin, Grofe, and Suesse that jazz and pop started really permeating the serious record buying consciousness... and don't forget that the Aeolian Hall "Rhapsody In Blue" recital wasn't until Feb. 1924, as part of a recital called "An Experiment In Modern Music".

True jazz really didn't break through to more sophisticated audiences until Benny Goodman's Carnegie Hall concert in January 1938.


True, but I was thinking not so much in terms of "real jazz" of appeal to the modern listener as the general run of what *was* popular at the time. During the period, Victor had, oh, Paul Whiteman, the Club Royal Or., Collins and Harlan, Jones and Hare, Billy Murray, Ada Jones, etc., etc., etc. In short, top-notch purveyors of the kind of material that was in fashion when they recorded it. I certainly haven't made a study of it, but my impression is that Pathé's popular catalogue offered few names, or performers working at that level, to match those, at least with much output. For example, Victor issued countless records by the Six Brown Brothers, cashing in on the saxophone sextet craze. I think the sole counterpart I've seen on Pathé was a record by somebody called the Masters Saxophone Sextet. I guess the most prominent exception I can call to mind is Arthur Fields, who did record on Pathé. But, as I say, it's not really my area of concentration, so I could easily be WAY off base.


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé record question.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Victor V
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Seems Pathé improved their popular side in the Needle Cut era. You get people like Annette Hanshaw in there.


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