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 Post subject: Re: Please Go Rescue Some Brown Wax In Portland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:47 pm 
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Victor III
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music is time travel and strings moments in time together like nothing else I know -- Kathleen Lane
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:23 am
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Location: North Oregon Coast
I played the 4 complete records and they play clearly (and quite loudly) all the way through. They also all have clear announcements. They are in very good shape and even the ones with a few spots of mold play clearly all the way through. The picture below is matched to the record slips that match. The one that does not have a record slip is clearly announced and is Gounod's Ave Maria played on the Violin by Frederick W. Hager.

The 5th record is broken at the beginning so I could not hear the announcement but the rest of the record is very clear. I am fairly clear it is a Banjo solo by Ruby Brooks.

The first record was found in the UCSB Cylinder audio archive but with the record number 3405. Perhaps the 3012 from the record slip is from a later renumbered black was record or something. I don't know for sure.

If anyone can more correctly identify any of these I would love to see the information.

3012 Leonora Waltz Xylophone Solo by Charles P Lowe - date 1897/1898
19 Under The Double Eagle March by the Edison Concert Band - date 1898/1899
7420 Because Violin Solo by Charles D'almaine - date ?
6701 Gound's Ave Maria Violin solo by Frederick W. Hager - 1899
2623 Narcissus Banjo Solo by Ruby Brooks - date ?

I am very pleased with the quality of the records and very saddened at the loss of the others which I am sure were just as clear as the whole ones. The speed of the various records seems to vary greatly. I had to slow some down and speed others up to get the announcer's voice and music to sound more natural. Is that common with these records?
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-- Dan

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 Post subject: Re: Please Go Rescue Some Brown Wax In Portland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:52 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:00 pm
Posts: 3414
Location: Western, WA State
Dan, if you are willing to spend the money, The Cylinder Doctor can repair these. I can't think of his name right now. I met him at the CAPS show many years ago. He does great work bringing these back from the dead.
Harvey Kravitz


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 Post subject: Re: Please Go Rescue Some Brown Wax In Portland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:04 pm 
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Victor IV
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Location: Linden, NJ 07036
Basically you have everything correct.

#3012 is correct for “Leonora” by Charles P Lowe. 1897/98
The reference to 3405 for Leonora is incorrect on the UCSB, cylinder 3405 is “Come Where the Lilies Bloom”.1897/98

#19 is correct for “Under the Double Eagle March” by the Grand Concert Band. 1898

#7420 is correct for “Because” by Charles D’Almaine. 1899/1900

#6701 is correct for Gound’s “Ave Maria “Violin solo by Frederick W. Hager - 1899

#2623 is correct for “Narcissus” but it a banjo solo by Vell L Ossman 1897/98

There is an Excel spreadsheet of Edison Cylinders here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=376

Rich Gordon


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 Post subject: Re: Please Go Rescue Some Brown Wax In Portland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:15 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
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Recording speed was not standardized at 160 for a long time. The most common early speeds were 120 and 144, but they were certainly not the only ones.

The Gold Moulded version of 19 Under the Double Eagle was one of the first cylinders I ever owned. It came with the purchase of my first machine, a long case Model A Home, back in 1976.


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 Post subject: Re: Please Go Rescue Some Brown Wax In Portland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:57 pm 
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Victor III
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music is time travel and strings moments in time together like nothing else I know -- Kathleen Lane
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:23 am
Posts: 809
Location: North Oregon Coast
rgordon939 wrote:
Basically you have everything correct.

#3012 is correct for “Leonora” by Charles P Lowe. 1897/98
The reference to 3405 for Leonora is incorrect on the UCSB, cylinder 3405 is “Come Where the Lilies Bloom”.1897/98

#19 is correct for “Under the Double Eagle March” by the Grand Concert Band. 1898

#7420 is correct for “Because” by Charles D’Almaine. 1899/1900

#6701 is correct for Gound’s “Ave Maria “Violin solo by Frederick W. Hager - 1899

#2623 is correct for “Narcissus” but it a banjo solo by Vell L Ossman 1897/98

There is an Excel spreadsheet of Edison Cylinders here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=376

Rich Gordon


Thanks for the info. I am not really all that familiar with early cylinders records and the spreadsheet will be very useful. Thanks for pointing it out. So much good stuff on this forum!
-- Dan

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 Post subject: Re: Please Go Rescue Some Brown Wax In Portland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:02 pm 
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Victor III
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music is time travel and strings moments in time together like nothing else I know -- Kathleen Lane
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:23 am
Posts: 809
Location: North Oregon Coast
Phonofreak wrote:
Dan, if you are willing to spend the money, The Cylinder Doctor can repair these. I can't think of his name right now. I met him at the CAPS show many years ago. He does great work bringing these back from the dead.
Harvey Kravitz



It is Mike Khanchalian. I know him and may talk to him about putting the two least terrible ones back together. I'm very familiar with his work. It is very slow and gets expensive fast. I will be in touch with him sometime soon. But, I do not have to be in a hurry. I will protect the pieces until I am ready to do more with them.
-- Dan

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Visit the OTAPS Home Page http://otaps.org


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 Post subject: Re: Please Go Rescue Some Brown Wax In Portland
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:25 am 
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Victor O
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:28 pm
Posts: 53
Non-destructive chemical analysis can largely be done via FTIR and XRF analysis. With FTIR there are a number of contact methods that can scan and identify the major components (within 90% probability or better). Most FTIR software has a built in library that can subtract each identified component from the scan, and look for underlying chemicals. The next major material is then subtracted, using the library, and so on and so on. It is limited to mainly organic materials (waxes included)so doesn't necessarily give good resolution for additives (like clays, fillers, etc), but XRF analysis may give those. These methods could give a good starting point to start experimenting to reproduce the formulations lost in time. These methods are mainly qualitative, but can give relative proportions for a starting point. Unfortunately (fortunate for me), I am retired, otherwise, I would have enjoy the challenge.


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 Post subject: Re: Please Go Rescue Some Brown Wax In Portland
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:55 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:00 pm
Posts: 3414
Location: Western, WA State
That's the man. Like said before, I met him at the CAPS show several years ago. He had a set up showing how he repaired these cylinders. And, they did play good after the repairs. Good luck with them.
Harvey Kravitz

melvind wrote:
Phonofreak wrote:
Dan, if you are willing to spend the money, The Cylinder Doctor can repair these. I can't think of his name right now. I met him at the CAPS show many years ago. He does great work bringing these back from the dead.
Harvey Kravitz



It is Mike Khanchalian. I know him and may talk to him about putting the two least terrible ones back together. I'm very familiar with his work. It is very slow and gets expensive fast. I will be in touch with him sometime soon. But, I do not have to be in a hurry. I will protect the pieces until I am ready to do more with them.


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