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 Post subject: Rare brown celluloid cylinder record.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:29 pm 
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Victor IV
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A new blank with authentic formula and spiral core!
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:50 am
Posts: 1402
Location: 615 1/2 South Main Street Princeton IL 61356.
https://youtu.be/7WGR29ZaajQ


The collector wanted to remain anonymous as it is a very strange and rare kind of cylinder. I transcribed it back in 2004 when I lived in Upstate New York. It had no title end, it was a medium, reddish brown celluloid, much the color of a brown wax record. The inside a yellow composition material that backed the brown celluloid up. As you can tell it has no company announcement, just "Sousa's Latest March, Jack Tar played by Hager's Orchestra. Beings it says Sousa's LATEST march, it would put this cylinder in the 1903-1904 range, as it was published in 1903. I would say it could have been a test pressing. It has very good bass response and sounds very good for any 1903-1904 recording. I suspect a 5' horn was used to record the piece, as the vocals sound similar to when I record an announcement with the same kind of horn, the bass response also makes me come to this conclusion. You can also hear the musicians muttering to each other at the end of the record. Henry Seymour is credited for the advance ball recorder in 1903, so if the recorder uses one, it is an early use of the advance ball for a cylinder record recording. You will also note the announcer has an upstate New York accent, however it is much before the Albany Indestructible Record Company.


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 Post subject: Re: Rare brown celluloid cylinder record.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:09 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1908
Location: Harrison Township, MI
Any pictures of this cylinder, or does it wish to remain as anonymous as its owner? :)


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 Post subject: Re: Rare brown celluloid cylinder record.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Victor IV
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A new blank with authentic formula and spiral core!
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:50 am
Posts: 1402
Location: 615 1/2 South Main Street Princeton IL 61356.
I looked through old CD-rs from the 2004 era when I transcribed the cylinder, and have not found the photo yet. It would be a little hard to fake a recording like that if that is what you are getting at, you would have to hire a band that sounded exactly like Fred Hager's orchestra. As you can tell it is an authentic cylinder recording. Fred W Hager was the conductor of the Hager Zonophone Orchestra, Columbia Orchestra Director, Recording engineer and conductor at KEEN-O-PHONE, from 1915-1916 manager of PERMA, the musical supervisor at Okeh, and director of the Fred Hager's Novelty Orchestra. Maybe those brown wax celluloid records were a private experiment for Columbia, perhaps they were thinking of introducing their own celluloid record to compete with Lambert. Perhaps they were Columbia prototype records and Columbia decided to chicken out, for a patent suit. This is probably unlikely as Columbia did not mind being an intellectual property thief, look at how they developed their own brown wax recipe. First hiring Mr. Storms, and paying him $500.00 for the information, although it was wrong. Then hiring the Melzer brothers and paying them for several months of work with a Graphophone, and then patenting the brothers work as their own. As 3 are known to exist, counting this one. It is frustrating as no company announcement is on. :roll: it.


Last edited by edisonphonoworks on Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rare brown celluloid cylinder record.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:51 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1908
Location: Harrison Township, MI
What? Why on earth would you think I am accusing you of posting a fake recording???? You describe a very unusual, very interesting cylinder, isn't it human nature for a collector to want to see it? Never mind...


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 Post subject: Re: Rare brown celluloid cylinder record.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:03 pm 
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Victor IV
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A new blank with authentic formula and spiral core!
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:50 am
Posts: 1402
Location: 615 1/2 South Main Street Princeton IL 61356.
Sorry. to sound a little terse. :oops: If I ever find a photo I will post it. I thought it would be on the same disc as the recording. I did take 2 photos of it. Nothing wrong with curiosity it is very unusual. Does anyone else have one? I was hoping also to find out if any more are around. It is a mystery to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Rare brown celluloid cylinder record.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:03 am 
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Victor V
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:17 am
Posts: 2837
Location: Where there's "hamburger ALL OVER the highway"...
Curiouser and curiouser, as Alice said... :geek:

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Rare brown celluloid cylinder record.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:24 am 
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Victor Monarch Special
Stop for a visit when in Oregon.
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 5463
Location: Albany, Oregon
Didn't Lamberts come in colors other than black and pink including brown? What other colors? Jerry B.


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 Post subject: Re: Rare brown celluloid cylinder record.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:45 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1908
Location: Harrison Township, MI
edisonphonoworks wrote:
Sorry. to sound a little terse. :oops: If I ever find a photo I will post it. I thought it would be on the same disc as the recording. I did take 2 photos of it. Nothing wrong with curiosity it is very unusual. Does anyone else have one? I was hoping also to find out if any more are around. It is a mystery to me.



O.K., no problem. Would still interested in seeing one. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Rare brown celluloid cylinder record.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:10 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:24 pm
Posts: 97
That's an upstate NY accent? Sounds no different than the declamatory style of many announcements, although this guy had the voice equivalent of being in drag, quite frankly.


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 Post subject: Re: Rare brown celluloid cylinder record.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Victor IV
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A new blank with authentic formula and spiral core!
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:50 am
Posts: 1402
Location: 615 1/2 South Main Street Princeton IL 61356.
I know that Lambert did come in brown, black, white and pink. Don't Lambert records usually say Lambert Company of Chicago, or Lambert, Indestructible Record after the title and artist? What was really odd about the record is the lack of a title, and yellow composition core. I know some Lambert records have no core, some have plaster wedges, and later ones have plaster cores, like a Blue Amberol. This yellow composition inside is different. It is very much like the U.S. everlasting records, although that is usually a black tar like composition The yellow core, is almost like a sawdust and glue composition. Although I looked through a cylinderography and did not find the song or the artist, and these came out much later. What is still odd is the recording seems to be 1903-1904.


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