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 Post subject: Re: Victor 14" Deluxe Special Record List & Questions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Victor V
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Not exactly off-topic so much, but I'd have to add that I think the 14 inch Fonotipia discs are far less often encountered than the Victors and even the Columbias which, from my own observation are also less frequently found than the Victors, of course I'm speculating somewhat, but how many of us here have a 14 inch Fonotipia? I have one, a Garbin and Sammarco duet, it was a parking lot Wayne show find some years ago in super condition and I prize it.

Sean


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 Post subject: Re: Victor 14" Deluxe Special Record List & Questions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:30 pm 
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Victor O
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Menophanes wrote:
Quite apart from their sheer size and their rarity, these records promise to be of unusual musical interest: if the 'Victor Symphony Orchestra' had even the slightest entitlement to use that name – that is, if it included any sort of string section – then the records of such classics as the Oberon and Flying Dutchman overtures must be among the earliest true orchestral recordings ever made. (Never mind that most of the pieces would have been abridged; that was still common practice twenty years later.) Has anybody actually heard any of these 'orchestral' items?

Oliver Mundy.


Oliver, I just ordered a new mounting bracket for my transcription turntable's cartridge - once it arrives and I install it, I will give my disc a well-deserved listen and see if the "Morganblätter Waltz" (by the Victor Symphony Orchestra) contains any strings in it. This way, I'll be comparing it against the "Flying Dutchman" record which, as others pointed out, was recorded by the Victor Grand Concert Band and contains only brass arrangements.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor 14" Deluxe Special Record List & Questions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:34 pm 
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Victor O
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"Don't Deny Yourself the Sheer Joy of Orthophonic Music"
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52089 wrote:
Menophanes wrote:
Quite apart from their sheer size and their rarity, these records promise to be of unusual musical interest: if the 'Victor Symphony Orchestra' had even the slightest entitlement to use that name – that is, if it included any sort of string section – then the records of such classics as the Oberon and Flying Dutchman overtures must be among the earliest true orchestral recordings ever made. (Never mind that most of the pieces would have been abridged; that was still common practice twenty years later.) Has anybody actually heard any of these 'orchestral' items?

Oliver Mundy.



Flying Dutchman is on YouTube:

(Double-click the video above or click this link to go to the video on YouTube.)



"Three Dances from 'Henry VIII' is also on YouTube (with a "delightfully chipper" British narrator too!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w-VayLOOLg


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 Post subject: Re: Victor 14" Deluxe Special Record List & Questions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:23 pm 
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Victor II
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:39 pm
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-1903-Vict ... 060?_ul=BO


JAR


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 Post subject: Re: Victor 14" Deluxe Special Record List & Questions
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:16 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:52 am
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Location: Redruth, Cornwall, U.K.
jmad7474 wrote:
"Three Dances from 'Henry VIII' is also on YouTube (with a "delightfully chipper" British narrator too!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w-VayLOOLg


Thank you! This is certainly an orchestra, albeit a rather ungainly one. The violins sound like Strohs. The middle piece, Shepherds' Dance, is not too badly cut.

I wonder if the 'Victor Symphony Orchestra' is to be identified with the studio band which Victor formed, with considerable self-congratulation, in 1904? Charles D'Almaine, an Englishman who played in the Metropolitan Opera orchestra, was the principal violin, and I think the conductor was Walter Rogers who served for some years as Victor's musical director. Victor's publicity leaflet listed thirteen players, although it does not necessarily follow that this was the band's total strength.

Oliver Mundy.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor 14" Deluxe Special Record List & Questions
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:12 am 
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Victor O
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Location: Minneapolis, MN
OrthoSean wrote:
Not exactly off-topic so much, but I'd have to add that I think the 14 inch Fonotipia discs are far less often encountered than the Victors and even the Columbias which, from my own observation are also less frequently found than the Victors, of course I'm speculating somewhat, but how many of us here have a 14 inch Fonotipia? I have one, a Garbin and Sammarco duet, it was a parking lot Wayne show find some years ago in super condition and I prize it.

Sean


Sean, I personally have never seen a 14" Fonotipia and probably never will. In fact, I have only come across two Fonotipia discs in my entire life! That said, I do know a fellow collector in NJ who owns probably 70 or 80 Fonotipia records and ask if he knows anything about them - they are really cool recordings (with more interesting musical content on them than the 14" Victor Deluxe Special records) and I would love to hear yours if you can upload the audio!


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 Post subject: Re: Victor 14" Deluxe Special Record List & Questions
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:38 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:11 am
Posts: 12
Regarding this topic, I have attached the two applicable pages from the Collector's Guide to Victor Records.

I hope this provides some help.


Attachments:
Deluxe Page 1.png
Deluxe Page 1.png [ 2.47 MiB | Viewed 335 times ]
Deluxe Page 2.png
Deluxe Page 2.png [ 2.42 MiB | Viewed 335 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Victor 14" Deluxe Special Record List & Questions
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:47 am 
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Victor O
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"Don't Deny Yourself the Sheer Joy of Orthophonic Music"
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:46 pm
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Location: Minneapolis, MN
msherman wrote:
Regarding this topic, I have attached the two applicable pages from the Collector's Guide to Victor Records.

I hope this provides some help.


It most certainly does, thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Victor 14" Deluxe Special Record List & Questions
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 1:15 pm 
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Victor O
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Well, I finally installed the mounting bracket for my transcription turntable and gave the record a spin - it's typical Victor fodder for the era (though I will admit it's a spirited performance) and it is performed by an orchestra, "albeit a rather ungainly one" (thanks Oliver!) It sounds like the same performers as the ones in "Three Dances from 'Henry VIII'", though unlike that record, I notice that mine has some inconsistent pitch shifts inherent to the recording; the original recording engineer may have been winding the motor or fiddling with the cutter's speed control while recording the piece!

Again, I sincerely appreciate all in this thread who contributed their valuable time and knowledge about these records - mine is the crown jewel of my Victor 78 collection, and I think we can safely put the question of what these giant records sounded like to rest! (Audio of the "Morgenblätter Waltz" is uploaded on the first post of this thread for those interested in hearing it.)


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 Post subject: Re: Victor 14" Deluxe Special Record List & Questions
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:22 pm 
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Victor II
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Location: Mountain Home, Arkansas USA
The only 14" record I've ever seen (and am lucky to have) is an inside-start Pathé 90 rpm record I won in a Nauction some years ago. (The only other 14" discs I've seen were the large lacquer discs used for mastering 12" LPs.)

From what I read in NOTE THE NOTES, the Columbia 14" offerings were similar fare to Victor's. They only offered about the same number of selections in the large size during the brief time they produced them. All orchestral instrumentals. And just like the Victors they also were nominally 60 rpm. The earliest of them had a label pressed into the back side mentioning the 60 rpm speed, whilst the last ones had the 60 rpm notice in the boilerplate label copy.


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