The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Don't be troubled Bart, I'm happy with my assortment of styli anyway, I didn't expect to hear any miracles out of it in any case. This is the typical kind of thing in which discussing with others about the decisions you should take is more interesting and amusing than buying the final object per se. Also, for some reason, we males like to own "high-tech" stuff just for the pleasure of having it at home. Perhaps it's to us what jewelry is to women.

It seems there is a general consensus, however, that British HMVs would benefit from being listened to with the 3.5mil. I have quite a large group of "green" label HMV on which it may be worth testing the 3.5mil with attention. It's a strange, uniform group of records with swings played by what seem to be resident bands of renowned hotels of the time. I could never even really assess wether the records were pressed/recorded in UK or USA. Time perhaps to go through them again and look at them closer.

Just out of curiosity, which size/shape stylus would you folks use for playing Pathé (outside groove start) records? I tried a Shure N78s (spherical 2.5 mil) in a Shure M91E, on my DUAL 1218, but the stylus didn't track well. It was trying to "skip" out of the groove across the record, and when it did stay in the groove it sounded terrible. I understand the vertical groove of Pathé records may not be very deep?

Best,
Fran

fran604g wrote:Just out of curiosity, which size/shape stylus would you folks use for playing Pathé (outside groove start) records? I tried a Shure N78s (spherical 2.5 mil) in a Shure M91E, on my DUAL 1218, but the stylus didn't track well. It was trying to "skip" out of the groove across the record, and when it did stay in the groove it sounded terrible. I understand the vertical groove of Pathé records may not be very deep?

Best,
Fran

Pathé discs can be tough no matter what to play electrically. The shallow groove doesn't help. I've had some luck using my 2.0 mil stylus, but you really don't know and I wouldn't spend that kind of money for something that isn't necessarily going to be uniformly reliable. Sometimes the anti-skate on your turntable can be helpful getting these to track better. Stylus size with Pathés doesn't seem to be that important (at least not as much) since you're tracking the bottom of the groove. I've even transferred some that wouldn't cooperate at 33 ⅓ and then sped them up using Audacity to the correct speed, but it's time consuming!

Hope this helps a bit,
Sean

OrthoSean wrote:

fran604g wrote:Just out of curiosity, which size/shape stylus would you folks use for playing Pathé (outside groove start) records? I tried a Shure N78s (spherical 2.5 mil) in a Shure M91E, on my DUAL 1218, but the stylus didn't track well. It was trying to "skip" out of the groove across the record, and when it did stay in the groove it sounded terrible. I understand the vertical groove of Pathé records may not be very deep?

Best,
Fran

Pathé discs can be tough no matter what to play electrically. The shallow groove doesn't help. I've had some luck using my 2.0 mil stylus, but you really don't know and I wouldn't spend that kind of money for something that isn't necessarily going to be uniformly reliable. Sometimes the anti-skate on your turntable can be helpful getting these to track better. Stylus size with Pathés doesn't seem to be that important (at least not as much) since you're tracking the bottom of the groove. I've even transferred some that wouldn't cooperate at 33 ⅓ and then sped them up using Audacity to the correct speed, but it's time consuming!

Hope this helps a bit,
Sean

Thanks Sean. Next time I'll play with the anti-skate. I had thought of that, but didn't pursue a solution very energetically.

Best,
Fran

fran604g wrote:Just out of curiosity, which size/shape stylus would you folks use for playing Pathé (outside groove start) records? I tried a Shure N78s (spherical 2.5 mil) in a Shure M91E, on my DUAL 1218, but the stylus didn't track well. It was trying to "skip" out of the groove across the record, and when it did stay in the groove it sounded terrible. I understand the vertical groove of Pathé records may not be very deep?

Best,
Fran

It shouldn't sound terrible. That crappy stock Shure N78 stylus is what I use for Pathés and nothing else. Other styli with less compliant suspensions have more of a tendency to skip for me. I do not like the N78S with Diamond Discs. The mass of your pickup arm will be a factor as well as the anti-skate and tracking force. Yes, the N78S works well for that application and doesn't skip for me. Of course you need to be set up for vertical playback.

Marco, I think with time you will find records that sound miraculously better with the larger styli. Sometimes my 3.5 mil truncated (the only >2.5mil one I have) is an absolute necessity. I am certain your investment was sound, if you'll pardon the pun!

Wolfe wrote:

fran604g wrote:Just out of curiosity, which size/shape stylus would you folks use for playing Pathé (outside groove start) records? I tried a Shure N78s (spherical 2.5 mil) in a Shure M91E, on my DUAL 1218, but the stylus didn't track well. It was trying to "skip" out of the groove across the record, and when it did stay in the groove it sounded terrible. I understand the vertical groove of Pathé records may not be very deep?

Best,
Fran

It shouldn't sound terrible. That crappy stock Shure N78 stylus is what I use for Pathés and nothing else. Other styli with less compliant suspensions have more of a tendency to skip for me. I do not like the N78S with Diamond Discs. The mass of your pickup arm will be a factor as well as the anti-skate and tracking force. Yes, the N78S works well for that application and doesn't skip for me. Of course you need to be set up for vertical playback.

I think also that I may not have had the tracking weight high enough. As you're aware, the 1218 has a very low mass arm, by today's standards.

And yes, this particular headshell/cartridge is only set up for vertcal playback.

It performs flawlessly for Diamond Discs, I should add.

Best,
Fran

I've tried that Shure N78S stylus with DD's and it does work OK...it works. I just get better results with other things. I was fiddling with a noisy Diamond Disc not that long ago and I came right back to my old standby Stanton spherical LP 'DJ' stylus, the one with the white body and white dot. Got the most music with the least noise, I don't use that stylus for anything else.