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 Post subject: Re: The Last Commercially Issued 78. Really. 1982
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Victor V
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gramophone-georg wrote:
Wolfe wrote:
I wouldn't mind owning that Dorsey / Sinatra disc, but my guess is that it's cut from the same source as the Dorsey / Sinatra RCA / BMG collection it comes from, which is to say it's heavily filtered. The original Victor 78's of that stuff sound very good, arguably better than the earlier of the Columbia Sinatra (solo, post Dorsey) sides. I haven't found any really good CD / LP transfers of the Victor sides.


From memory, this is likely the best:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Frank-Sinatra- ... Swz~paR~IX

I don't know what went on with Columbia after about 1941... quality really seemed to suffer. The Harry James sides on 1939- 40 Brunswick and Columbia are great if you can find the original pressings which isn't easy. The late 1940s- 1950s Columbia reissues that put "Featuring FRANK SINATRA" first on the label are quite poor pressings by comparison.




I'm unsure of just exactly when Columbia started the practice of cutting takes to 33 ⅓ 16" lacquer discs and then dubbing those to 10" or 12" 78 rpm masters - that could be a culprit. But even the undubbed 33 ⅓ lacquers that survive and can be heard on the Frank Sinatra 'complete' 12 CD blue box of the Columbia years have boxy sounding sonics earlier on. Things improve a lot, expecially the later stuff that was recored at the 30th Street 'church' studio in New York, that Columbia was using in those years.

The Sinatra / Harry James 78 rpm sides are rare in their original Brunswick form but the common circulating CD that gathers them all, plus some other 1939 James Brunswick material is adequate.


Last edited by Wolfe on Sun May 13, 2018 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Last Commercially Issued 78. Really. 1982
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Victor V
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gramophone-georg wrote:
Damn. I'll go back in my corner now. :lol:



Last 78 RPM issue by a MAJOR record company ? (trying you help you out here... ;) )


Are they shellac or vinyl ?

:coffee:
De Soto Frank


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Commercially Issued 78. Really. 1982
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 8:08 pm 
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Victor V
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By a MAJOR, could be British E.M.I. who were issuing 78 rpm discs in India well into the 1960's.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Commercially Issued 78. Really. 1982
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:07 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
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Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
De Soto Frank wrote:
gramophone-georg wrote:
Damn. I'll go back in my corner now. :lol:



Last 78 RPM issue by a MAJOR record company ? (trying you help you out here... ;) )


Are they shellac or vinyl ?

:coffee:


Thanks, but enough people have told me I'm beyond help that they are likely correct.

OK, how about the last VICTOR 78?

Hah. Think I'll edit my title. That'll show you chuckleheads! :)

Oh, and the Victor be vinyl. Microgroove, too.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Commercially Issued Victor 78. Really. 1982
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:12 pm 
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Victor II
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As far as regularly-released singles during the transition to 45 1949-1958, the last US RCA Victor known is 20-7410, 'One night'/'I got stung' by Elvis.

IIRC the last known Canadian RCA Victor 78 is 20-7600, 'A big hunk o' love'/'My wish came true', also by Elvis, in late 1959.

South Africa is known to have produced 78s as late as 1961 if not 1962.

Those US and Canadian records have the then-current 'color Nipper' 'New Orthophonic High Fidelity' style labels. The big Michael Sherman book on Victor records has a picture of a label from a late 1960s 78 from South America that sports the yellow/orange post-Nipper RCA label that was adopted in 1968, although the label copy has no dates on it.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Commercially Issued 78. Really. 1982
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:56 pm
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gramophone-georg wrote:
Wolfe wrote:
I wouldn't mind owning that Dorsey / Sinatra disc, but my guess is that it's cut from the same source as the Dorsey / Sinatra RCA / BMG collection it comes from, which is to say it's heavily filtered. The original Victor 78's of that stuff sound very good, arguably better than the earlier of the Columbia Sinatra (solo, post Dorsey) sides. I haven't found any really good CD / LP transfers of the Victor sides.


From memory, this is likely the best:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Frank-Sinatra- ... Swz~paR~IX

I don't know what went on with Columbia after about 1941... quality really seemed to suffer. The Harry James sides on 1939- 40 Brunswick and Columbia are great if you can find the original pressings which isn't easy. The late 1940s- 1950s Columbia reissues that put "Featuring FRANK SINATRA" first on the label are quite poor pressings by comparison.


There was a period when Columbia recorded their masters on 16" acetates and dubbed them to their final form on 10" wax for plating and production of discs. So during this period (just before adopting tape as a recording medium) all Columbia discs were dubs of the master acetate.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Commercially Issued Victor 78. Really. 1982
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:34 pm 
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Victor V
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^ What I posted at the top of this page.

If you get CD's that are from the 33 ⅓ rpm 16" lacquers vs. the dubbed 78's the difference can be striking. I've got some other stuff on CD like the Peggy Lee & Benny Goodman sides, Gene Krupa Orchestra, etc. They are from the lacquers.

Columbia had an advantage in the immediate pre-tape, early LP era (ca.1948-49) in that they were able to issue LP's from their lacquers whereas other companies like RCA Victor had to dub from 78's just to get product on the shelves.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Commercially Issued 78. Really. 1982
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:36 pm 
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Victor II
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Wolfe wrote:
I wouldn't mind owning that Dorsey / Sinatra disc, but my guess is that it's cut from the same source as the Dorsey / Sinatra RCA / BMG collection it comes from, which is to say it's heavily filtered. The original Victor 78's of that stuff sound very good, arguably better than the earlier of the Columbia Sinatra (solo, post Dorsey) sides. I haven't found any really good CD / LP transfers of the Victor sides.


I have 20 + Sinatra on red label Columbia and they sound TERRIBLE. It drives me crazy because I'm a huge Sinatra fan. It seems like these wore down faster than other 78s of the time too.


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Commercially Issued Victor 78. Really. 1982
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:14 pm 
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Victor II
Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 2:03 pm
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Location: SF Bay Area
Ah yes but the THIRD MAN reissue is the FIRST and LAST Elvis at the same time???!! 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: The Last Commercially Issued 78. Really. 1982
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:23 pm 
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Victor V
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travisgreyfox wrote:
Wolfe wrote:
I wouldn't mind owning that Dorsey / Sinatra disc, but my guess is that it's cut from the same source as the Dorsey / Sinatra RCA / BMG collection it comes from, which is to say it's heavily filtered. The original Victor 78's of that stuff sound very good, arguably better than the earlier of the Columbia Sinatra (solo, post Dorsey) sides. I haven't found any really good CD / LP transfers of the Victor sides.


I have 20 + Sinatra on red label Columbia and they sound TERRIBLE. It drives me crazy because I'm a huge Sinatra fan. It seems like these wore down faster than other 78s of the time too.


Yeah, those red label Columbia 78's are pretty junky. Sinatra's later Capitol 78's continued to be pressed on shellac, rather than quieter vinyl (seemingly) right up until the end. I've not run into any non-shellac 'DJ' copies either, like with some other artists. The most recent one I have is Witchcraft (1957) on a shellac U.K. Capitol / E.M.I. pressing. Doesn't sound that wonderful.

The Sinatra Collectors Guide by Peter Barbato reports the last Capitol 78 rpm single by Sinatra to be All The Way (# 3793) in 1957. Sinatra recorded for Capitol until 1962.


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