The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:27 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Blue Amberol cylinders: How to seal surface after reaming?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:11 am 
Offline
Victor O
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 11:05 am
Posts: 62
Has anyone a suggestion how to seal the surface of the plaster core of an Edison Blue Amberol after reaming? After reaming records the core is very dusty and even after cleaning it with a wet tissue it is like that. My idea was to cover it with lacquer but this would add a certain thickness to the core and it probably may not fit well again on the mandrel. So, I was wondering if any of you has any experiences with this?

You may ask, why it is such a problem when there is some plaster dust still left. Well, as you are surely aware it is said that at least in certain times of production there was asbestos added to the plaster for the core of the Edison Blue Amberols. And asbestos in dust is causing a very agressive form of lunger cancer when it is inhaled. So, I am extremly cautious with reaming Blue Amberols and like to minimize the risk. Hence I like to make the reamed cylinders as much free of plaster dust as possible.

Any ideas what to do best?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blue Amberol cylinders: How to seal surface after reamin
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:23 am 
Online
Victor V
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 2413
The lack of asbestos in Blue Amberols has been documented and discussed here before:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6234&hilit=asbestos+amberol&start=40

As far as cleaning up the plaster dust, I am a big fan of slightly tacky dust cloths, especially the "One-Wipe Ultimate Duster". I'm not sure these are even made anymore, I bought a large supply on closeout. A regular Swiffer duster will do in a pinch too.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blue Amberol cylinders: How to seal surface after reamin
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:16 pm 
Offline
Victor III
I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Posts: 633
Location: South Carolina
Get a tack cloth at an automotive store--preferably the Carquest line, as I work at one--they are made to pick up dust from sanding and refinishing auto paint.

3M makes the Sontara Tack Cloth and it lasts very well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blue Amberol cylinders: How to seal surface after reamin
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:46 am 
Offline
Victor III
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:02 pm
Posts: 893
Location: Melbourne, FL
"the core is very dusty and even after cleaning it with a wet tissue it is like that."

No offense, But are you nuts?

One thing that you NEVER DO is introduce any moisture to a Blue Amberol. It's a good way to ruin it.

Once you REAM a cylinder, You blow it out with some Compressed air to get rid of any dust...and wipe the inside down with a dry cloth.


:o)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blue Amberol cylinders: How to seal surface after reamin
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:29 am 
Offline
Victor O
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 11:05 am
Posts: 62
Apologizes for the wrong diction. English is not my native language and though I consider my language skills as decent, sometimes I am less precisely than you people from Down Under, or the USA or Britain obviously can be as you never had to learn another language to communicate with the rest of the world.

Of course I did not use a "wet" tissue. I used a paper tissue with only one or two drops of water, so it was just a little bit ... well, what word shall I use to describe it the best ... "humid"? "moist"? I didn't wash the cylinder under running water nor did I use a heavily water soaked cloth to get rid of the dust. Also I had of course used compressed firstly, but that didn't work well enough.

Anyway, what do you think will happen because of such an extremly tiny amount of moisture? The tissue just takes away the dust and if there's any moisture left on the plaster core it dries instantly. Also I keep the record outside its box for a couple of days ... just in case there should be some moisture left to dry. Please share your experiences, Tony, and I am happy to learn from you and make it better next time.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blue Amberol cylinders: How to seal surface after reamin
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:18 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:07 am
Posts: 953
As the core usually will not absorb moisture unless one stores the cylinders in the bathroom or laundry, wiping off the inside with a wet (paper) towel will not do any harm. I have done this many times in the past.

I should point out, that the reason for shrinking Blue Amberols is not a swollen plaster of paris core but the shrinking celluloid that keeps continuously compressing the core until either one of them gives way. Reaming is only a temporary workaround for the symptom, but not a solution of the problem.

In other words, just reaming and dry storage will not inhibit the ongoing self-destruction of a Blue Amberol, which will eventually cause the celluloid to split. I am about to conduct long-term tests for rejuvenating the celluloid and ways to measure and quantify a possible success.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blue Amberol cylinders: How to seal surface after reamin
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:01 pm 
Offline
Victor VI
User avatar
Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 3616
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
Another thing I have always wondered about was why so many Blue Amberols were missing plaster from the ends...?

I think the reason is that in the past, if a cylinder didn't fit on the mandrel and you didn't happen to have a reamer, the solution was to whack the end on a table breaking the plaster and with that gone the cylinder now fits...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blue Amberol cylinders: How to seal surface after reamin
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:17 pm 
Offline
Victor II
User avatar
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:23 pm
Posts: 494
Location: Michigan
I'm curious, has anyone here gotten a Blue Amberol wet and it swelled up on them.

Many years ago I over reamed a Blue Amberol cylinder. I figured no problem, I'll put it in some water to swell it up, let it dry and ream again.
Well over the next two weeks with the Blue Amberol in water and checking it from time to time, nothing happened. It didn't swell, not even a little, none.

So from then on I never worried about getting a Blue Amberol wet, and haven't had any problems.

Now if they sit in a damp basement for 70 or 80 years then I believe the plaster may have a chance to swell.

Larry Crandell


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blue Amberol cylinders: How to seal surface after reamin
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:05 am 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:07 am
Posts: 953
Beating out the ends of a BA core would be a pretty good way to destroy a Blue Amberol but very unlikely make it fit the mandrel again. In most cases it is the whole interior of the cylinder that has become smaller, thus removing just one end will only cause the celluloid to shrink unevenly. An easier explanation would be, that such a cylinder was either dropped or the PoP core began to crumble by itself. I have seen it happen both ways.

Everyone who has handled Lambert cylinders, early films and celluloid discs is likely aware of their shrinking problems. It's the very same thing with Blue Amberols. As long as the celluloid has space to shrink it will, but once that reserve is used up it will either split or break the core.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Blue Amberol cylinders: How to seal surface after reamin
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:23 pm 
Offline
Victor V
User avatar
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:23 am
Posts: 2196
Location: NW Indiana B-19;VV-IV; VV-VI;VV-XVI; Edison Home B; Amberola 30; Col. BK; Magnola;
Honestly the answer to the problem is to reproduce the cylinders in plastic resin. The work that Norman, Rob and Vulcan are doing is really the only long term solution to preserving cylinders. I have bought cylinders with no splits, and go to play them in the past year or so and will notice small splits forming at the end. So my theory is that most of these will eventually split out sooner or later. These cylinders are getting tighter as the years go by, I would think most will be unplayable in the next 20 years.

I know that its bad news to us with Blue Amberols, but it is inevitable.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.