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A rare find - 2 minute black celluloid record made by the International Phonograph Indestructible Record Ltd., Liverpool. The original tin lid states "Petit's Patent". The cylinder has both a metal ring and a white plaster core. I do not have much information regarding the brand and its history, but there seems to be a connection to the International Talking Machine Co. (Odeon and Fonotipia disk records)?

Very nice find!
I wish I had one.

The International Phonograph & Indestructible Record Co Ltd was established in Liverpool on 16th April 1902. Adamor N. Petit was a director and works manager.

In January 1903 the Lambert Company brought an action against International for infringement of their manufacturing patents. Lambert lost the case and appealed, but the appeal was dismissed in February 1904. In July 1904 International's assets were sold, but the manufacture and sale of records was continued by the similarly named International Indestructible Record Co until about 1907. I know of no connection with the International Talking Machine Co.

The cylinders were pirated copies of mostly Edison and Edison Bell originals. It was not until 1911 that the Copyright Act extended the protection of copyright to sound recordings. Then as now, legislation lagged behind technology.

Many thanks for this interesting information!

It is remarkable that this cylinder dates from 1902/1903 - besides being black, its appearance resembles a Blue Amberol quite closely, including the plaster core and embossed title highlighted by white paint. Unfortunately, the disadvantage of being unplayable without "roaming" of the plaster core is present as well.

I read somewhere that Petit committed suicide as a result of financial ruin as a result from the law suits.

I had several of these cylinders but the plaster would swell overtime and split the celluloid the full length of the cylinder.

That's interesting! Now I'm considering to precautionarily remove the entire plaster core from my example, as the celluloid itself is still undamaged. The plaster is badly cast and brittle - the black spot visible on the foto is actually a hole caused by a bubble.

Accursius wrote:That's interesting! Now I'm considering to precautionarily remove the entire plaster core from my example, as the celluloid itself is still undamaged. The plaster is badly cast and brittle - the black spot visible on the foto is actually a hole caused by a bubble.

That's a tough call. Personally I would rather have the cylinder split rather than remove the core. I cannot play the cylinder but the original is all there and actually shows what happens over time. Such a pity that the split in this way. I had about 10 of the cylinders and they all split close to the same time.

I have two of these rare IIRC records on Ebay right now:

• https://www.ebay.com/itm/265097854697
  
  https://www.ebay.com/itm/265097870389

AND...They are not split...!!!! But the plaster core will need to be reamed a bit.

Also have two split ones in this auction:

• https://www.ebay.com/itm/265097877162

I borrowed epigramophone's record description too...!!! Thanks for the research info on these rare records.

Mark

If you are interested in the history of the International Indestructible, the CLPGS Reference Series No.13 "Phonograph Cylinder Histories No.2" by the late Frank Andrews has a detailed account of the company (as well as "Electric" and "Russell" records) plus a CD of recordings from the original cylinders.

https://www.clpgs.org.uk/reference-series.html

Priced at £7.00 including worldwide postage and packing.

Reference Series RS.24 "The Pirates" also includes a section on IIRC as well as further recordings on the accompanying CD also priced at £7.00.

All the best

Tim W-W