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 Post subject: Re: A mysterious sound at the beginning of some Victor recor
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:46 pm 
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Victor VI
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Zkeener323 wrote:
I believe I hear it at about the thirty eight second mark. I wish I could recall what records they were but I have two in my collection where there are these strange sounds. One has a clunking sound at the begininning andf the other occurs further in right before the vocal. I always just assumed it was someone messing with the recording horn. However, a conductor tap or recording engineer signal sound much more probable than my assumption.


If you listen closely to some Victor electrics you can hear a buzzer before the sound begins


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 Post subject: Re: A mysterious sound at the beginning of some Victor recor
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:58 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:04 pm
Posts: 24
Estott, I don’t doubt your reference, but could you provide a source for this. I would love to read up on this myself. Also, I’ll have to listen to my electrically closely, I probably paid no mind to anything like that. It’s so interesting that the take which was chosen to matrix wasn’t always perfect. I personally love them more for that fact. However, it makes me wonder what was on the prior takes that exempted it from further process.

Edit: A simple google search and I found those Sooy Brothers memoirs. Looks to be a pretty interesting read from what I just glanced at.


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 Post subject: Re: A mysterious sound at the beginning of some Victor recor
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:46 pm 
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Victor V
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Zkeener323 wrote:
Estott, I don’t doubt your reference, but could you provide a source for this. I would love to read up on this myself. Also, I’ll have to listen to my electrically closely, I probably paid no mind to anything like that. It’s so interesting that the take which was chosen to matrix wasn’t always perfect. I personally love them more for that fact. However, it makes me wonder what was on the prior takes that exempted it from further process.



The released Twilight was take 1.


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 Post subject: Re: A mysterious sound at the beginning of some Victor recor
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:24 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:49 am
Posts: 547
Location: British Columbia, Canada
The released Twilight was take 1.[/quote]

This is one of Galli-Curci's most exquisite recordings, and the first of hers I ever heard--I was 12 years old and became instantly captivated by the sheer delicacy and beauty of her voice.

She really had a lovely way with music from the French repertoire.

Steven


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 Post subject: Re: A mysterious sound at the beginning of some Victor recor
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:07 pm 
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Victor V
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Location: NW Indiana B-19;VV-IV; VV-VI;VV-XVI; Edison Home B; Amberola 30; Col. BK; Magnola;
estott wrote:
Henry wrote:
estott wrote:
You are not mistaken- it is not unusual to hear a conductor's signal on records.

and on this you can hear the whistle from a nearby factory

Are you referring to the sustained "a" at approx. 1:45-1:50, and again at 2:45-end?



No, I mean it- the Campbells Soup plant was near the studio, start at .33 and you can hear the factory whistle- she pauses a second & it is audible over the strings. It can be heard on other records too & the Sooy Brothers write of it in their memoirs.

Similarly the Vitaphone movie studios were located in a Brooklyn basement & sometimes picked up the subway noises


I often wonder why they did not set up a recording studio out in a quiet rural area? They could have avoided the ambient noises of factories and transportation. All that I can think of is the issues with unavailable electricity in rural areas.


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 Post subject: Re: A mysterious sound at the beginning of some Victor recor
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:10 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
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Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Victrolacollector wrote:

I often wonder why they did not set up a recording studio out in a quiet rural area? They could have avoided the ambient noises of factories and transportation. All that I can think of is the issues with unavailable electricity in rural areas.


Likely no power. Electricity wasn't widely available outside the cities in USA until after the WPA/ TVA.


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 Post subject: Re: A mysterious sound at the beginning of some Victor recor
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:55 pm 
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Victor VI
I have good days...this might not be one of them
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:23 pm
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Location: Albany NY
You also wanted the recording studios near the concert halls and theaters- or else at the plant near the laboratories


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 Post subject: Re: A mysterious sound at the beginning of some Victor recor
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:51 pm 
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Victor Jr
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If you listen to Victor Red Seal recordings from the 1906 to 1907 period, you will hear a "rat-a-tat" immediately before the performance. I believe it was a mechanical flap that would signal when to begin playing. It is clearly heard and consistent for roughly a two year period. It suddenly disappeared by about 1908.

I believe it was introduced when orchestra accompaniment became standard in 1906.

Listen to Caruso's first orchestra accompaniment recordings from February 1906. You will hear it on the 88000 series discs up to about 88060 or so.


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 Post subject: Re: A mysterious sound at the beginning of some Victor recor
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:49 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:49 am
Posts: 547
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Governor Flyball wrote:
If you listen to Victor Red Seal recordings from the 1906 to 1907 period, you will hear a "rat-a-tat" immediately before the performance. I believe it was a mechanical flap that would signal when to begin playing. It is clearly heard and consistent for roughly a two year period. It suddenly disappeared by about 1908.

I believe it was introduced when orchestra accompaniment became standard in 1906.

Listen to Caruso's first orchestra accompaniment recordings from February 1906. You will hear it on the 88000 series discs up to about 88060 or so.


Yes, I've heard it on most of the early orchestral accompaniment Victor operatics (my only reference point)
during the 1906-08 period. And, it seems that after the Grand Prize label era, say in recordings made beginning in 1909, I notice a different characteristic sound on the recordings in general. The room ambience sounds different, the voices less boxy sounding, and the musicians sound as if they are positioned differently around the horn, with the tuba becoming less prominent, resulting in a somewhat smoother sounding ensemble. Perhaps they also experimented with different horns and diaphragms, but the overall sound--or do I daresay EQ (LOL)--is different compared to that from 1906-1908.

Another detail I noticed is that also from around 1909 Victor used different abrasives in their pressing material (to help the steel needle conform to the grooves) often resulting in an annoying swishing sound which could be mitigated when played with the proper stylus size on modern equipment.

Steven


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 Post subject: Re: A mysterious sound at the beginning of some Victor recor
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:34 pm 
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Victor II
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estott wrote:
You are not mistaken- it is not unusual to hear a conductor's signal on records.

and on this you can hear the whistle from a nearby factory

(Double-click the video above or click this link to go to the video on YouTube.)



For anyone who's interested, this recording is being offered in the current Nauck's auction, item #2155, minimum bid of $25. The listing mentions the Campbell's Soup factory whistle.
Wonderful invention, the phonograph. Keeps a man alive long after he's dead. ~ P.J. Wolfson


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