Another Unusual Cylinder Find Today

[rgordon939]

I bought a bunch of Edison Blank Cylinders. Going through them today I was surprised at the core of most of the cylinders. They all appear to have a mesh lining in them. I’ve never seen this before and was wondering if anyone else has.

[Chuck]

Rich,

That embedded fabric is typically found on
most brands of dictation blanks.

Ediphone, Dictaphone, and Nuphonic dictation blanks
all have that type of embedded cloth inside.

It was put in there to give the blank extra
strength because in a working office environment
these blanks got knocked around a lot.

Some gum-snapping secretary would unceremoniously
shove them onto the shaving machine at the end of
each day to hastily make them ready for the next day.

The cloth core helps hold them together.

[edisonphonoworks]

It seems like an Edison Blanks due to the double spiral. I have never seen standard size entertainment blanks like this before. The Ends appear to be factory finished and rounded over. Are these four-minute black recording blanks, as found in the yellow Edison containers? Maybe we just found a rare variety. I have seen the four-minute black blanks with a double spiral core, with no title or markings at all, and I have seen them with an annular ring core, like a Gold Moulded record and "Edison Recording Blank Patented June 1-1907, and the Thomas A Edison umbrella signature around the rim, and 1910 as the last patent date on the lid with a June 1st 1912 label (all original to the blank). Perhaps for a short time either shortly after coming out with the new black wax blank or during the transitional time when going from spiral core to annular ring core.

[rgordon939]

Yes these are black 4-minute blanks in the yellow boxes. The boxes can be seen behind the cylinders. As you say I have never seen ones like this before either.

Rich Gordon

[drboruff]

Several years ago I purchased a few blanks in very late style boxes. After seeing this thread I was curious about the construction of the blanks, and I discovered they too have a reinforced mesh core. With 1917 being the last patent date, were these boxes designed for business or home use?
David

[Lucius1958]

Several years ago I purchased a few blanks in very late style boxes. After seeing this thread I was curious about the construction of the blanks, and I discovered they too have a reinforced mesh core. With 1917 being the last patent date, were these boxes designed for business or home use?
David

If they were meant for business use, it is odd that they seem to be of standard 4" length, rather than the 6" that dictation cylinders commonly used.

-Bill

[edisonphonoworks]

Several years ago I purchased a few blanks in very late style boxes. After seeing this thread I was curious about the construction of the blanks, and I discovered they too have a reinforced mesh core. With 1917 being the last patent date, were these boxes designed for business or home use?
David

What is the diameter of these blanks? Dictation blanks have a diameter of about 2.36" when new, while entertainment blanks are usually in a range of 2.130"-2.185" in diameter. The box looks very late, It is interesting that it seems the four-minute blanks were introduced double spiral and intern period of annular rings with printing around the rim (Edison Recording Blank Patented June 1, 1907, and umbrella signature.) and then back to the spiral core with the liners? I do though think also that short 4 ¼" blanks were also made for dictation machines, but have a larger diameter than entertainment blanks as stated above.

[recordmaker]

Here are a few questions.

Is it possible that after the 1912 introduction of the celluloid cylinder that the entertainment division stopped making any wax cylinders and the supply of blanks for domestic phonographs was furnished by the ediphone division? (note that both language teachers and ethnographic music collectors were using this format up to the late 1930s).
In this case wouldn't the cylinder manufacturing techniques used by the ediphone division at the time would have been employed retaining the spiral and the cloth core?
With the original 4 minute blank project being so unsuccessful when were these discontinued?
Do any of the mid teens or 20s catalogues list blanks as being available?
If so what type?

Is the blue label on the later blanks boxes shown using the printing plate for the blue only part of the Blue Amberol box? , or it a new printing plate adapted from the same artwork?

[edisonphonoworks]

I do know the composition of the Ediphone blank is not the same as the black wax entertainment blank, the blank sold as the four-minute blank is considerably harder than the Ediphone blank. The way I know this is in shaving. You can shave the late entertainment blank on the Ediphone shaver, only if you shave in very light passes, deep ones do the same thing as what happens when attempting to shave a Gold Moulded entertainment record, it rips the surface making a dusty cut, that makes little holes in the surface of the blank, shaving lightly or throwing off the belt of a commercial shaver, and slowly feeding the head over the blank by turning the feedsrew by hand will make a nice shave on the later blank, otherwise the box handle shaver with the long blade, or chemical shaving are the alternative option. The Dictation machine blanks contained sterine pitch, and Standard Oil company brand paraffin. Below is transcribed from the Ediphone Divison OMS sheet for making Ediphone blanks.

Ediphone Wax Formula and Procedure for making Ediphone Cylinders

Noted C.H. 11/21/1946

1. 1,200 lbs of double pressed stearic acid (130 °F. Titer) and 4 lbs of nigrosine base B dye are placed in a 200-gallon cast iron cauldron. The cauldron is directly heated by an oil burner of the household type. (Our Present ones are Eisler, the manufacture of which has been discontinued.) Heat is applied until the stearic acid has been melted and the temperature has reached 360 °F. 2. 2,000 grams of metallic aluminum is placed in a 75-gallon steam-jacketed open kettle. To this are added 7,000 grams of NaOH and 10 gallons of water. When the reaction has subsided, 92 lbs of anhydrous sodium carbonate are added and finally 50 gallons of water. Note: The aluminum scrap is usually obtained from the Storage Battery Division in the form of punched strips. It is important that the size and thickness of this material be such as to ensure a fairly rapid rate of solution. All of this reaction takes place under a hood. An alternative method consists of dissolving 8,900 grams of sodium aluminate in about 10 gallons of water and adding 5,000 grams of NaOH pellets. When the complete solution has taken place, 92 lbs of anhydrous sodium carbonate are added and the necessary amount of water to bring the bulk up to 60 gallons.

In both cases solution is affected by means of pressure steam in the jacketed portion of the kettle. When the solution is substantially clear it is slowly added, a pail at a time (3 gallons) by means of a 2-quart dipper, to the heated stearic acid as prepared in 1. The oil burner is kept on during this operation in order to keep the temperature of the mixture fairly constant at 360 °F (182 °C). Care must be exercised in adding this "Saponifying" solution so that excess foaming is prevented. After all the solution has been added the resulting "formula wax" is heated to 400 °F (204 °C). and maintained at this temperature for four hours, at which time a sample is removed, a congealing point determined, (see under "tests"), and any addition made of stearic acid or sodium carbonate solution for correction, and the mixture held without additional heat for 10 hours. It is then heated again to bring the temperature up to 400 °F (204 °C) and allowed to cool gradually, usually overnight. When the temperature has again been reduced to 350 °F (177 °C) the wax is pumped by means of a Kinney pump into 10-gallon pails from which the wax is poured into shallow pans containing approximately 50 lbs of the wax per pan. After the material has cooled to room temperature it is removed from the pans and stacked.

3. Into a 200-gallon cast iron cauldron heated by an oil burner of the household type, (or as required at present by war conditions, heated by bituminous coal) are placed 500 to 900 lbs of "formula wax". Note: The amount of "formula wax" to make up a batch varies according to the amount of scrap wax which is to be added to the cauldron. Scrap wax represents commercial wax of which "formula wax" is a part. To the amount of "formula wax placed in the cauldron are added 19½% Paraffin (Melting Point of 133 degrees-135 °F., usual source Standard Oil of New Jersey) and 2% stearine pitch (Melting Point) 40 Degrees Celsius). This mixture, consisting of "formula wax", paraffin and stearine pitch, represents commercial wax. Finally, commercial scrap wax of the composition given above in added until the total weight of the mixture is approximately 1,600 lbs. This mixture is usually heated beginning at 12 midnight and carried through until the temperature is 410-415 °F. at 8 am. Note; This may be regarded as standard procedure, although at the present time (Dec. 1943) this has been modified so that only Sunday nights is this done. On other days of the week except for Saturday the kettles are started at 6 am. This method was adopted due to man shortages which necessitated starting the molding operation later in the day.) At this time a congealing point is taken and the necessary adjustments made (see under "tests") after which the mixture is transferred to a closed agitating tank by means of a Kinney pump, the latter forced the hot material through a 2" pipe.

4. To the mixture in the agitation tank, there is added 3/10 per cent Johns-Manville # 503 Filter Aid. The temperature is maintained at 375 °F (191 °C). by means of a ring gas burner, at the bottom of the tank. At this temperature, the wax is supplied by a Worthington pump at 30 lbs to a one square foot Shriver press whose head and follower are steam jacketed and which has 7 sections. The effluent from this press passes through a second Shriver press which has 2 sections of one square foot each. The mixture from the outlet here finally passes through a 1" pipe which has a 100 × 150 mesh Monel, metal screen held in its cross sections by means of a union, into one of four 75 gallon aluminum kettles. These kettles are protected by conical hoods to prevent dust particles from being carried into the body of the wax. After allowing the wax to remain at 330 °F (166 °C). for three hours it is ready to be poured into the blank molds. The temperature is maintained by gas burners beneath the kettles and controlled automatically by Partlow Corp. thermostatic controls.

5. By means of a pot with 2 spouts, the molds are filled with molten wax. The pot has a capacity of about five pounds (slightly less than 2 quarts and is specially designed of aluminum and made by Theodore Walter, Newark N.J... The molding table revolves at the rate of 6 blanks per minute, approximately, and the size of the pouring pot spout is only sufficient to permit the hot wax to flow into the moulds at a rate slightly faster than the speed of the molds which rotate past a given point around the table.

The blanks are extracted at a temperature of 200-205 °F. and place on boards which hold 30 blanks. These boards when filled move by gravity down a conveyor. The length of time on the conveyor is about two hours after which time they are sufficiently cool and hard to be put into production boxes holding 63 blanks. The boxes are placed in racks for the following day's production. Into each production box, a semi-finished cylinder, which has been edged and reamed and which conforms to a standard internal diameter at 70 °F (21 °C) of 1.826 " at the thin end, is placed. The purpose of this is to permit the edging operation to take place on the un-finished blank at any temperature by adjusting the machine to conform to the standard. Thus, in each production box, there is a total of 63 unfinished cylinders. One day's production is held at least 24 hours before further processing.

6. The blanks are first reamed. The reamer consists of a twisted tapered and eight fluted tool. The blanks are forced on the reamer by hand to a stop. The position of the stop is adjusted so that sufficient material will be removed from both ends of the blanks when the blank is edged in the next operation. The reamer revolves at approximately 300 RPM.

7. The edging operation consists in placing a reamed blank on a tapered mandrel and by means of two special cutters working in unison the ends of the blank are formed to conform in couture to a standard template. A second gauge is used to ensure proper length (6⅛"). In each case, the edged blank must rest on a tapered mandrel gauge in exactly the same position as the standard blank which is in the production box. The usual procedure is to make the necessary adjustments of the knives of the first blank which is edged so that it conforms to the standard, and then continue the operation on the rest of the blanks in the production box at the identical position of the first blank. Note; since there are 63 blanks for each standard blank it will be observed that every 63rd cylinder is checked mandrel gauge. The accuracy of the method and the facility with which it is done depending on the care and skill of the operator. This is the most critical of all the operations. The edging machine revolves at 2,200 RPM.

8. Following the edging operation is the stamping. This consists of applying a hot printing die to the thick end of the cylinder as it is placed accurately in a vertical position under the die. The heating of the die is done by means of a resistance wire coiled within a hollow torus near the under edge of the circular die. The coiled wire is connected to a source of current and the latter is adjusted by means of a rheostat. The heated died has raised lettering and makes an impression on the end surface of the wax cylinder. The depressed positive lettering on the cylinder is filled with a thick paste of zinc carbonate, the excess of which is brushed or wiped off after drying.

9. The cylinders are next shaved on a ganged shaving machine consisting of a rough shaving knife free from "blinds" and "lines", accurate concentricity and a minimum of taper. These factors depend on the tension of the driving belt, tension upon the rotating mandrel between centres and the position and sharpness of the knives. The speed of the mandrel is around 2,200 RPM.

10. The finished cylinders are placed in boxes that contain 16 pegs and run down a conveyor. At a point on this conveyor, the cylinders are held and brushed on the inside to remove wax shavings and dust.

11. Cylinders are inspected, packed and placed in the stock room for a minimum of thirty days before shipping.

12. The reinforcing liners are made as follows: Crinoline cloth of specifications given under "Tests", are cut into a trapezoid (Paper Products Dept.) base length 6¼, altitude 5⅝" top length 5¾". A pack of these are placed in a vice edgewise and thinned glue, one part Le Pages Glue, one part water, brushed onto one slant edge. A liner is then wrapped a tapered mandrel of such size as to fit no too snugly on the molding core. The liner is held on the mandrel by means of two jaws actuated by a foot lever and the lapped edges of the liner glued by means of a gas iron held for an instant along the line of the lap.

J.W. Nell

December 8, 1943

[chouser002]

Hello, Is anyone interested in 6 Edison records, a victrola and a coupe dozen 78's? Local shops are not interested but if someone is pay shipping and they are yours. Most are from mid 1920's to early 30's recordings