Homophon Record. Crazy logistics

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Josh Cattermole 1999
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Homophon Record. Crazy logistics

Post by Josh Cattermole 1999 »

I recently saw this record and, as with any Homophon record I see, I try to date it by deciphering the date code on the disc. In the case of this record the date code, D11P, corresponds with it being pressed on the 11th April 1911. However, the subject matter of the record, the Scottish Cup final for the 1910/1911 season, took place on the 8th April 1911. As can be seen, it says ''Pressed in Berlin'' on the label. So my question is, how on earth did a Scottish recording make its way to Berlin and get pressed, with a label designed, all in the span of 3 days. This was in 1911, so transport was a lot slower than it is today. The logistics of this blows my mind. Surely I'm missing something here? Thanks for any insights.
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Re: Homophon Record. Crazy logistics

Post by recordmaker »

The date normally refers to the recording session date and that makes sense if this indeed a match "commentary" from the 8th of April.

I wonder how long it took to get it in to the catalogue and have it still topical.

Processing it to stampers would take about a week and pressing stock copies another couple of weeks so with the round trip to Berlin this would have probably taken at least a month.

I have a Zonophone of Sammy Shields which I will now have to listen to as I think it is less time sensitive as it also talks about the English Cup Final but mainly to notice that all the players come from Scotland Ireland or Wales.

Josh Cattermole 1999
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Re: Homophon Record. Crazy logistics

Post by Josh Cattermole 1999 »

Ah, that makes more sense it being the recording rather than the pressing. Cheers.

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Re: Homophon Record. Crazy logistics

Post by bfinan11 »

Newcastle and Bradford are English sides (and the label mentions the English final). This match was actually played on 22 and 26 April 1911, according to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1911_FA_Cup_Final). On the 22nd, both teams played to a 0-0 draw at the Crystal Palace, forcing a replay on the 26th (at the Old Trafford, in Manchester), Bradford City 1-0 Newcastle United.

This now raises the question of how an upcoming match could possibly have ended up on record, weeks before it was played.

My guess, without having heard the record, is that it was either some kind of promotion or a prediction of the match -- the semifinals were played on 25 March, leaving plenty of time for Sammy Shields to have come up with a "commentary", gone to Berlin to be recorded (London to Berlin, according to a world map from 1910, was a 2-3 day journey, probably primarily by train as it is now, with a ferry or steamer crossing of the Channel), and had the records pressed and shipped back to England in time for the FA Cup final.

Josh Cattermole 1999
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Re: Homophon Record. Crazy logistics

Post by Josh Cattermole 1999 »

Oh sorry. My bad. I accidentally posted a picture of the wrong side. Didn't even realise that it had the English commentary on the other side.
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Re: Homophon Record. Crazy logistics

Post by recordmaker »

It is almost certain that there was a recording studio for Homophone in Britain, you do see similar records with "Recorded in London" on them ( I think to distract the customer from the "Pressed in Prussia" or "Berlin" in the shellac)

At this date I expect that the master waxes were processed to a first copper master locally and this robust metal format sent to Berlin for duplication and pressing.

The cost of having music hall stars a week in transit from the Halls and a studio in Berlin would have made no economic sense for 1 or 2 sides.
Recording, for many lesser music hall stars, was a source of occasional income that could be had during the daytime when they were not performing to a paying audiences. (also no record royalties for most performers at his time)

HMVs were pressed in Hanover up to 1911 and many smaller labels seem to have been German pressings. Columbia and Edison BELL had their own pressing plants around this time and Crystalate in Kent made inroads into custom pressing in the UK from 1906 onwards.

The recording, manufacturing and marketing chain in the Edwardian era is indeed fascinating.

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Re: Homophon Record. Crazy logistics

Post by Orchorsol »

recordmaker wrote:It is almost certain that there was a recording studio for Homophone in Britain, you do see similar records with "Recorded in London" on them ( I think to distract the customer from the "Pressed in Prussia" or "Berlin" in the shellac)

At this date I expect that the master waxes were processed to a first copper master locally and this robust metal format sent to Berlin for duplication and pressing.

The cost of having music hall stars a week in transit from the Halls and a studio in Berlin would have made no economic sense for 1 or 2 sides.
Recording, for many lesser music hall stars, was a source of occasional income that could be had during the daytime when they were not performing to a paying audiences. (also no record royalties for most performers at his time)

HMVs were pressed in Hanover up to 1911 and many smaller labels seem to have been German pressings. Columbia and Edison BELL had their own pressing plants around this time and Crystalate in Kent made inroads into custom pressing in the UK from 1906 onwards.

The recording, manufacturing and marketing chain in the Edwardian era is indeed fascinating.
Fascinating indeed, many thanks recordmaker. I've heard that before they engaged in record production themselves, Crystalate may have supplied ready-mixed compound to Nicole for them to press records, is that right to your knowledge? Their main business at the time was in billiard balls, and whilst I don't know what those were made of, presumably the materials technology had some commonalities.
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Re: Homophon Record. Crazy logistics

Post by Inigo »

In the runout area there should be another date too, in the format ddmmyy, one or two digits for each, and this is reported to be a master (matrix, mother, stamper...?) processing date, thus later than the coded recording date. I happen to own two duplicated sides on different couplings, and they show the same coded recording date, and different processing dates.
It's interesting nothing down both dates for each side. In this case, it will shed more light on the subject. For each side we have the match celebration date, the coded recording date and the matter processing date.
I'll check now the post photos to see if possible these processing dates.
EDIT
Side 60152 has a processing date (6 o'clock position) 171113 A, two years later than the subject. I believe it was also reported that the letters after the date were added to the second and following masters, thus the 'A' matches with a date so late after the recorded events, to be a second master. Yet it seems strange to repress such a temporary interest recording as late as two years after. It makes one think that the interest on special events was then longer than today, things like fashion passing much slower that nowadays.
The other side 60151 also has a processing date at 6 o'clock, but the photo doesn't show this clearly. It's also interesting to check these data on both sides simultaneously, belonging to the same physical record. Sometimes the time lapse between recording date and processing date is much different at either side, this fact being also of interest to judge the earlier the record was made, and the later the record was still on sale.
Heir pressings on cheaper labels (reissues from the Beka stable, etc) usually still carry the Homokord original dates unmolested, and this also leads to interesting conclusions.
Pathé records also carry matter processing dates in faint reverse hand writing, but they lack the recording dates; only the master cylinder numbers. The case of Homokord records is very interesting.
These facts I learned at that other marvelous forum the 78-L, but don't remember the name of who unveiled the Homokord mystery. Maybe a Google search would reveal the origins of the decoding keys.
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Re: Homophon Record. Crazy logistics

Post by recordmaker »

Orchorsol wrote:
recordmaker wrote:It is almost certain that there was a recording studio for Homophone in Britain, you do see similar records with "Recorded in London" on them ( I think to distract the customer from the "Pressed in Prussia" or "Berlin" in the shellac)

At this date I expect that the master waxes were processed to a first copper master locally and this robust metal format sent to Berlin for duplication and pressing.

The cost of having music hall stars a week in transit from the Halls and a studio in Berlin would have made no economic sense for 1 or 2 sides.
Recording, for many lesser music hall stars, was a source of occasional income that could be had during the daytime when they were not performing to a paying audiences. (also no record royalties for most performers at his time)

HMVs were pressed in Hanover up to 1911 and many smaller labels seem to have been German pressings. Columbia and Edison BELL had their own pressing plants around this time and Crystalate in Kent made inroads into custom pressing in the UK from 1906 onwards.

The recording, manufacturing and marketing chain in the Edwardian era is indeed fascinating.
Fascinating indeed, many thanks recordmaker. I've heard that before they engaged in record production themselves, Crystalate may have supplied ready-mixed compound to Nicole for them to press records, is that right to your knowledge? Their main business at the time was in billiard balls, and whilst I don't know what those were made of, presumably the materials technology had some commonalities.
Billiard balls were coated in celluloid which was also the Nicole surface material, as far as I can tell. I would not be surprised to learn that Crystalte made coated blanks for Nicole to press the records on as the coating process would fit right in with their normal work. They may even have pressed them, they are supposed to have claimed to have been the first in the UK to press records, but supposedly didn't back up the claim in detail, possibly not wanting to link themselves with the innovative but finally technically flawed Nicole product.
Someone at crystallite must have seen an opportunity in the record business after that.

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Re: Homophon Record. Crazy logistics

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