How to determine the proper playback speed.

[bart1927]

I have a question. How does one determine the odd speeds mentioned such as say 76.29, etc. I'm well aquainted with the strobe for 78 & 80 rpm, or the use of a stopwatch and a piece of paper under the record or taped to the end of a mandrel for the even numbered speeds. I've always tried to go by ear, such as a Patti disc like Sean mentioned, but haven't a clue as to it's actual speed.

Bill

You can find a free strobe program at http://www.78rpm.com/rescat/strobe_info.htm
Even those strobe´s aren´t completely accurate btw. If you use a strobe for 78 rpm in the USA (60 Hz mains frequency) you are actualy setting your turntable to 78.26 rpm. When you live in Europe and use a 500 Hz strobe it´s actually 77.92.

You can use the program to make a strobe for 76.59 rpm, that would be a 94 band strobe (for 60 Hz) and it actually sets your turntable to 76.60 rpm.

In fact the only 2 speeds that can be determined exactly with a strobe, both in 60 and 50 Hz areas are 80 rpm and 33.33 rom.

[Amberola 1-A]

Thanks Bart for the link. That still begs the question of figuring out the speeds of discs prior to the standardization of 78 as the accepted speed. Some sites do give the calculated speeds of certain recorded pieces, but on others, one is still at a loss of the correct speed (unless of course the artist sounds like Alvin, Simon or Theodore and then you know there's an issue!)
So does it basically boil down to what is pleasing to the ear?
Bill

[bart1927]

So does it basically boil down to what is pleasing to the ear?
Bill

That´s what they told me. Also even with the arrival of electric recording, speeds were all over the place. I have several George Olsen Victors (very early electric Batwings) that supposedly should be played at around 75 rpm. I already learned that using sheet music to find the correct pitch doesn´t always work, because sometimes they used transposed arrangements. Not only to accommodate the vocalist, but also because certain musical instruments are much more difficult to play in one key than in another.

Tonight I tried to determine the correct speed by ear. I started at 70 rpm and slowly worked my way up and down until it sounded right. I closed my eyes, didn´t look at the speed marks, and just concentrated on the music. Much to my surprise I did reasonably well. A couple of times I landed at 78 exactly rpm, and another time (Paul Whiteman`s "Manhattan Mary") I landed slightly above 80 rpm. I used some records that I also had as cd-reissues (by well known audio engineers) so I could check. My cd reissue of "Manhattan Mary" played at ± 79,5 rpm (I played the cd and the record simultanously, until they were in sync).

I´m not there yet, but at least I`m in the ballpark.

[Lenoirstreetguy]

That Paul Whiteman discography by...I think ..Carl Johnson has material based on the Whiteman Collection at Williams College. In it the key of the arrangements is given so I've had great fun seeing if my ear and the pitch given in the book jive and they mainly do. And some of those Whiteman sides in 1923 and 1924 were recorded at about 73 rpm !
I really don't think most stuff was consistently at 78 until about 1934, and even then they fall off the wagon. I know I've gone on about the Fritz Kreisler sides with Franz Rupp from the mid thirties recorded in Berlin which play at about 75. Richard is quite right about The Planets. The acoustic set is very slow and just this week I got several of the electrical sides which are in the 74-75 rpm range. This is why the Naxos cd reissue of The Planets is so annoying to listen to: the pitch is way too high. This is a particular bugbear of mine: it may be hard to find out the key used for the popular sides, but the scores of the classical material are available in every public library and most serious music stores so it's hardly a deep dark secret.

Jim

[Fredrik]

Jim,

Perhaps you are referring to Don Rayno's Whiteman biography? At least it contains a detailed discography based partly on research on the original arrangements, and I think the keys are given.

Fredrik

[Lenoirstreetguy]

That's the one I think! I need a holiday. I can blame the -22c weather this morning or something!
Jim

[antiquekid3]

The main reason for transposition in music is from what key the instruments prefer. In an orchestra (composed of mostly strings) the physical strings on the instruments are tuned in "sharp keys" such as D, A, E, and B. Think about on a guitar. However, on all brass instruments and woodwinds that I know of, they are all tuned in flat keys, such as B-flat, E-flat, F, and maybe A-flat. So in an orchestra, you'll probably find the piece in a sharp key, while a band would transpose it to a flat key.

From what I understand (I'm not in choir), singers have their own range (SATB) and thus the music must fit their range. This I guess would present another reason to transpose. Pianos, being tuned to the key of C (a C on the keyboard is a C-concert pitch) can play in all keys equally as well. Or as good as the pianist! I play xylophone, vibraphone, and marimba in band and get a taste of exclusively flat keys. Outside of band, I play many different pieces in sharp keys as well. Dizzy Fingers is in A-major and goes into a D-major section near the end. But I am much more proficient in flat keys!

One thing I still can't understand is why instruments are "in different keys." I asked my band director and he didn't feel like explaining it. Oh, well.

[hillndalefan]

The wind instruments in different keys is a real "can of worms"! Basically, the orchestra leaders, instrumentalists and composers listened to all sorts of instruments made in all sorts of keys, and agreed that they sounded best in the keys we commonly see today. The last to be brought to a standard was the "French" horn, which is actually more German, historically. Horn players until the late 19th century had crooks to put their horns in whatever key the composer called for. When four were used in a symphony, for example, the First and Second horns were in say, D and the Third and Fourth were in G, so that they could cover all the needed notes in a passage. They had to switch keys often between movements, and sometimes within a movement. This is why to this day, horn parts arranged from highest to lowest are: First, Third, Second, Fourth. Neeless to say, I'm a horn player.