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 Post subject: Using A Turntable Stylus In Diamond B Reproducer?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:36 am 
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Victor I
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Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:11 pm
Posts: 184
Location: Wolverhampton, Uk
Could I use a 3 mil diamond stylus on my diamond B reproducer in replace of my worn stylus? I am not prepared to spend $150 on a new stylus however I can get a 3 mil diamond stylus for $20 inc shipping.

What are your thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Using A Turntable Stylus In Diamond B Reproducer?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:05 am 
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Victor O
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:52 am
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Location: Redruth, Cornwall, U.K.
While I have no experience of the Diamond series of reproducers, it may be helpful to mention that I lately taken to using an ordinary LP disc stylus, mounted on an improvised plastic stylus-bar in a Model R reproducer, to play Blue Amberols. This gives very good clear results; the volume level is perhaps rather low, but with a large (24-inch) horn the effect is highly satisfactory. I have not been running this experiment long enough to guarantee absolutely that the stylus will not cause any wear in the records in the long term, but there is one which I have played at least ten times without any sign of injury.

Oliver Mundy.


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 Post subject: Re: Using A Turntable Stylus In Diamond B Reproducer?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:14 am 
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Auxetophone
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Location: Ferndale, MI
12jslater wrote:
Could I use a 3 mil diamond stylus on my diamond B reproducer in replace of my worn stylus? I am not prepared to spend $150 on a new stylus however I can get a 3 mil diamond stylus for $20 inc shipping.

What are your thoughts?



You should be able to find an entire Diamond B with a good diamond for under $150....

As for the LP stylus, I don't know for sure but I wouldn't personally trust it. I'm not very adventurous when it comes to my records, however.


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 Post subject: Re: Using A Turntable Stylus In Diamond B Reproducer?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Victor III
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"I dreamt of Paris again last night"-Roger
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:43 pm
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Location: Southaven, Mississippi
A modern turntable stylus for LP's (and the one for playing 78's) is meant to track at a very low tracking force. Many times in the 1-3 or 3-7 gram range.

I would think the Diamond B reproducer has a higher tracking force because it has a big metal weight attached to it, rather than a feather-light modern tonearm. This might be a problem, but I also know that a cylinder is made from different material than an LP. I'm also pretty sure the regular Edison diamond is much larger than the turntable stylus.

You might want to check into how these factors will affect your cylinders and the diamond itself.

I feel like this idea may work, because Edison Diamond Discs can be played very effectively with a LP-sized diamond stylus (and with the channels inverted), but you would have to drastically reduce the weight on the stylus. The reason a smaller size stylus is supposed to work is because the sound is in the bottom of the groove (hill and dale), where a smaller stylus can reach.

-Connor


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 Post subject: Re: Using A Turntable Stylus In Diamond B Reproducer?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 9:59 pm 
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Victor V
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
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Maybe I'm wrong but... what difference would it make if the diamond is for an Edison reproducer or a modern cartridge? A diamond is a diamond, as long as the size is the same and being the toughest material on the planet I doubt that weight would make any difference. Isn't a 3 mil diamond the same size either way?
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife

http://www.CarolinaPhonoSociety.com


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 Post subject: Re: Using A Turntable Stylus In Diamond B Reproducer?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:41 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 1866
Curt A wrote:
A diamond is a diamond


As one of the many who have purchased the nearly useless Diamond Disc styli from Expert, I would have to say no, all diamonds are not the same. I can't give you a gemologist's explanation of why some diamonds are better than others, but there are definitely differences.


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 Post subject: Re: Using A Turntable Stylus In Diamond B Reproducer?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:51 pm 
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Victor V
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
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Location: Belmont, North Carolina
I'm sure there are differences in quality as reflected by price... Obviously drill bit or diamond saw blade quality is totally different from wedding ring quality. So, I guess stylus quality varies as well, but assuming the quality and size are the same, I don't see why it wouldn't work...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife

http://www.CarolinaPhonoSociety.com


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 Post subject: Re: Using A Turntable Stylus In Diamond B Reproducer?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:33 pm 
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Victor II
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:57 pm
Posts: 347
Location: greater bubbaville
52089 wrote:
Curt A wrote:
A diamond is a diamond


As one of the many who have purchased the nearly useless Diamond Disc styli from Expert, I would have to say no, all diamonds are not the same. I can't give you a gemologist's explanation of why some diamonds are better than others, but there are definitely differences.


Judging Expert DD styli by the experience of disappointed customers makes me think they used something other than diamond.


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 Post subject: Re: Using A Turntable Stylus In Diamond B Reproducer?
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:08 am 
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Victor V
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:33 pm
Posts: 2253
Location: Near NY's Capital
I'm not quite so sure that Expert didn't use diamonds in their DD assemblies. The ones for the Diamond A, B and C reproducers are perfectly fine, the DD ones, well, let's just say in hindsight I would have gotten more satisfaction by taking the $1000 I lost and donating it to a local animal shelter.

Sean


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 Post subject: Re: Using A Turntable Stylus In Diamond B Reproducer?
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:31 am 
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Victor III
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Richards Laboratories http://www.richardslaboratories.com producing high quality cylinder blanks
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:28 pm
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The answer is that Edison kept on using heavier
and heavier weights to press down on the diamond stylus
until the unit pressure on the diamond became so great
as to wear the diamond quickly.

That is just what happens even with the HARDEST substance
known to man on this planet.

When you bear down on it with the approximate weight
of a Baldwin steam locomotive, even diamond will wear.

The Edison Diamond Disc format is living proof of this
fact. The lead-up to the Diamond Disc format was
the "Diamond" series of cylinder reproducers.

The basic pattern was established then: Add More Weight.
Keep adding more weight. Add so much weight that even
diamond wears. That's how you know you've added
enough weight.

I just did some calculating and came up with this:
The approximate distance that the stylus travels
in the cylinder record groove for 1000 Blue Amberol
plays is about 84 miles.

So, do that a few or several times with the stylus
being pressed down with about a half-pound of weight
and the results are rather obvious.

Then increase that force a whole bunch more
and do it all over again on some Diamond Discs and then
watch what happens.

Back to the original question of whether or not
a regular 33 rpm LP type diamond stylus would
be ok for playing Blue Amberol cylinders in one of those
heavy-weighted reproducers?

It does not sound like a very good idea to me.
"Sustained success depends on searching
for, and gaining, fundamental understanding"

-Bell System Credo


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