VV-XVI 3 spring motor disassembly (help needed)

[coreyp_1]

I recently purchased/rescued a VV-XVI (S/N is 55820 DM). It was completely frozen up, but I finally got it working. It still has loud thuds in the motor, though, so I know I need to clean and re-grease it properly. I'm a beginner, but I'm also trying to do this safely and properly.

Here's the problem part:

Unfortunately, I can't figure out any way to get to the main springs. I don't want to damage anything, and now I'm out of ideas. I also couldn't find any videos, pics, or descriptions of anyone disassembling this style of motor (3 spring). I assume that the gears need to come off somehow, but I can't find any screws or pins, and they aren't coming off at all. (I know that the largest of the 3 is rivetted to the can, of course.)

Any ideas? Your help is very much appreciated!

-CP

[Dave D]

That gear pulls off. You will then see a pin that needs to be pushed out and then the shaft will slide out.
Dave D

[coreyp_1]

Thanks for the reply! Do the 2 gears come off together (as in, are they 1 piece)?

By saying "2 gears", I mean the small and medium ones (or, if you prefer, rightmost and middle). And, for clarity, I assume that you are not talking about the largest (leftmost of the three gears) which appears to be riveted to the can.

[phonojim]

I have not worked on one of these in a long time, but IIRC the ratchet and gear pull off as a unit. Behind this gear is a pin which goes through the shaft. This pin is a loose press fit in the shaft and is held in place by a groove in the back of the winding gear. There should be a washer behind the pin; don't miss it in all of the gunk. In order to get the shaft out you will need to disconnect it from the center of the left hand spring (according to your picture) and pull it out from that end.

[VanEpsFan1914]

Everything he said is right. My brother and I got a baptism by fire doing one of these on my Victor III talking machine. I think it was a 1908 or 1909 model so it is not too different from yours.

You may want to get a big rubber, rawhide, or wooden mallet and thump the center shaft while some help pushes up on that gear assembly. Don't use screwdrivers alone as they will bend up the bull gear (big brass one.) You will want to be very careful and always use fulcrums of wood. Cut some from the end of scrap lumber if you must--foresters work hard every day growing new timber; can't think of anyone doing the same for Victrolas.

Line your workbench with a few old bath towels or a folded-up canvas tarp. Use cloths you won't mind getting greasy. If you drop the assembly it won't break the teeth of the bull gear.

My kid brother likes working with metal. Out of the blue he bent me some hooks to take lids off spring barrels and work on these things.

It was a two-week job but I got it reassembled and the Victor is playing to this day just fine. You'll do all right, I think.

Good luck!

[Dave D]

The brass gear that is riveted to the spring barrel stays with the spring barrel. The steel gear and the ratchet gear come off as one piece. They are sometimes pretty stuck from old dried out oil, so be ready for that. Like they said, watch for the pin and the washer. Once you clean it all up, it will slip on easier. Don't beat on the end of the shaft or you will peen it over and then really have a problem. Good luck!
Dave D

[cheryla]

Watch this guy on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHQp6MdRCl8

[coreyp_1]

Thanks for the help so far! I ended up purchasing a gear puller to help me to remove the stuck gear without damaging the housing. Now, I've got one spring out (and still have all of my fingers!), but I haven't been able to determine how to get into the other two spring container areas.

This is the single can. I can obviously see the seam, but it doesn't seem to have a spring clip at all. It also doesn't seem to pry off, either.

This is the inside of the larger spring can. I was able to remove the top spring, but that's it. The divider looks as though it is attached to the sides. As in, it looks like the inside of a tin can (e.g., no seam).

Lastly, here's the bottom side of the larger spring can. It has the exact same seam that was seen in the first picture, on the smaller can. Again, this is flush and it does not appear to have a spring clip, either. I put to the two cans side-by-side for comparison.

[MarkELynch]

Here are the Victor service instructions for the early three spring motor I posted ia while ago, you may find some help here.

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 06#p206506

Mark

[Marco Gilardetti]

The cap of this section is in top position in this picture, you can see the seam all around the border. In order to open it, I suggest you re-insert the shaft and gently hammer it with a rubber hammer from the other side, in order to push out the circular cap.



Again in this picture you can see the cap of the bigger barrel facing you. Again, push it out by gently hammering on the shaft from the other side.

Remember to mark down in one way or another the original orientation (clockwise or anti-clockwise) of any spring or you'll have a nightmare when reassembling the parts.

I don't get what you mean by "spring clips". There are spring rivets that catch the springs on the barrels and they are perfectly visible in some of your pictures.