Replacing a main spring??

[Cooljjay]

Ok, so I guess I shouldn't have taken on the task of repairing my friends broken Brunswick. In my head I thought that the spring had just came off the arbor. But it turned out the spring was busted. I found a replacement spring but made the mistake of removing the broken spring before the new one came, so I wound it in the barrel wrong, messed up the new spring. So I removed one out of a project Sonora that I had sitting around, got both springs in and I think everything is good. Question is does both mainsprings get wound into the barrel counter clock wise? Both springs in the Sonora were counter clockwise and so was the second spring in the Brunswick. Won't even get into all the extra supplies I had to buy and ruined jeans. But as they say if you don't mess up how are you supposed to learn.

[SonnyPhono]

Well Cooljjay, you are right that if you never try on your own you will never learn. I strongly believe that learning from your own mistakes, or better yet, your turmoils, you will take to heart the lesson learned more effectively than if you are taught. However, you have done the right thing by posting this question as spring changing can be tricky. (I am not one to copy in my technique however as I have officially replace a grand total of 3 springs!) I can tell you this, the springs that I replaced where not as difficult as I was expecting as I read multiple horror stories and had bad expectations when starting the tasks. But all went well with me.

I started with a Grafonola deluxe spring and wore leather gloves, eye protection, and a bucket covered with a heavy towel so as not to lose control of the spring for any reason. Removing it wasn't too bad. I de-greased it and re-greased it and found that replacing a nice strong spring was the hard part. I used a pair of large pliers to hold the spring tight against the barrel wall as I wound it little by little in a clockwise fashion. The hardest part was my forearm burn from constant pressure that I exerted by squeezing my hands tight to ensure no recoil which could cause serious injury. But as for the broken spring, I found that the solution to fixing it depends solely on where the spring broke. My break was very close to the pear shaped hole that coupled to the knob on the inside of the barrel so my fix was easy. I used a dremel and cut off an inch of the spring where it was broken. Then using a drill, I put a small hole in the end big enough to fit over the knob inside the barrel and tapered the hole a bit smaller to resemble the pear shape hole in the original spring if you are able to follow. The result works just as well as the original, after winding the spring clockwise in the barrel. Didn't take long and works perfect. I am not sure what direction to coil the springs in other machines, but just thought I would share my recent fix. I hope it has helped and I will post a few pictures shortly to illustrated it better.

Best of luck to you, make sure to wear eye protection and some gloves as to eliminate the chances of slipping the spring through your hands and causing a nasty gash.

[Cooljjay]

Thanks for the reply. I left the motor wound over night, this morning I let it completely unwind and it didn't pop off the spindle like last time, I wound it back up and it wound fine. I suppose I got the springs in right now. It would be interesting to know how the springs are wound into the barrel do you feed it in clockwise or counter clockwise? I guess my main lesson is don't jump into de-greasing and removing of old parts until you have the new parts! Thank god I learned that lesson long time ago to always take lots of photos, but the one I took of the spring it was to hard to note which way the spring was wound.

[gramophoneshane]

Sometimes if you're lucky, you can tell which way the spring goes by looking at the centre arbor or the lug on the barrel. The picture below shows a very obvious example, but normally the rivet will have a larger lip on one side.
I used to draw a simple diagram showing which way they springs went, but now I've got into the habit of lightly scoring the inside surface of the lid with a screw driver, as soon as the lid is removed.
As far as I've come across, all double springs should go in opposite directions to each other, whether in separate barrels or if both springs are in the same barrel.
9 times out of 10, the spring closest to the crank (or a single spring) is loaded in a counter-clockwise direction.

[edisonphonoworks]

That is pretty much it, be shure to make a diagram, and take your time. And Yes most double springs go in alternate directions. The most difficult springs to work on is the Triton motor springs in Triumphs, and the early 1912-13 Diamond Disc motors, These have very thick, springs. I took my first spring out when I was 11 years old, A Victrola motor. My first Edison spring repair was an Amberola 30 in 1986. I have put in hundreds of them. I put the spring barrel in a vice,with a wood block underneath to stabaize it and take it outside to a stump that is about 3 feet high. I hook the spring up and walk around it. To take springs out, I draw a diagram, then put the barrel in a burlap sack, and grab the center coils with pliers and yank out, the spring is released in the bag.

[Shellac Records Rule]

And Yes most double springs go in alternate directions

I'm new to Victrolas and having my motor overhauled as we speak. Having never taken one apart, I'm a bit confused on the alternate direction aspect. Wouldn't one spring be tightening while winding the unit up and the other releasing? Sorry if this is a silly question!

[JerryVan]

Guest,

In multi-spring motors, the first spring in line winds up and transfers its tension to the next spring, and so on, until the last spring in line transfers its tension, or driving torque, to the drive gear that runs the motor. In other words, each spring serves to wind up its neighbor. In effect, it's like having one very long spring. It's also akin to several batteries being hooked up in series as opposed to parallel.