Info needed regarding Victrola Universal 110-220 motor noise

[barnettrp21122]

I'm working on my first Electrola VV-XVI motor assembly, and need some help. During testing it makes a quick knocking noise when in its correct horizontal position. The noise disappears when the motor board is tilted up on its support bracket. I believe there's too much side play in the commutator shaft and wonder if it's missing some parts. In the picture below is a washer I believe went on the shaft end. There was a second washer with a flat detent on its rim, but that's gone missing.
If anyone's had a good amount of experience with these I'd appreciate your advice. PM's are welcome. Thanks!
Bob

[JerryVan]

Bob,

I'm pretty sure you're correct about there being too much end play. The washer you show would probably help things out. Just curious, how did the washer come to be loose? Did you have the motor apart? There may also be a small spring washer, (i.e. Belleville washer or wavy washer), that takes up end play.

[barnettrp21122]

Jerry:
I removed the motor cover to access the commutator and brushes. I did not notice the washers missing until I came across them later on the floor. The washers themselves would not affect end play, I'm pretty sure, and the cover underside does not come in contact with the shaft end. I wonder if there was an end cap with something holding a little pressure against the shaft end, like a ball bearing.
It'd be helpful to see a picture of someone else's motor. Thanks for the reply!
Bob

[JerryVan]

Jerry:
I removed the motor cover to access the commutator and brushes. I did not notice the washers missing until I came across them later on the floor. The washers themselves would not affect end play, I'm pretty sure, and the cover underside does not come in contact with the shaft end. I wonder if there was an end cap with something holding a little pressure against the shaft end, like a ball bearing.
It'd be helpful to see a picture of someone else's motor. Thanks for the reply!
Bob

I don't know about the one washer you mention, but the one you show absolutely would affect end play. It needs to go on the armature shaft, between the commutator and the motor housing. In other words, you would have to remove the end of the motor housing to put it in place. That's why I found it odd that it was loose and wondered if you had the motor disassembled.

[Henry]

I notice a slotted gizmo of some sort that appears to be threaded into the vertical post in the motor casting. Is this possibly an adjustment screw for the armature shaft/bearings? Maybe something is loose there. Can you feel any wobble in the armature shaft, or is there just the knocking sound you describe? I assume you've checked the condition of the motor brushes?

[barnettrp21122]

Jerry-your thoughts on washer placement makes sense. I haven't removed the armature, but who knows where this motor's been before I got it!
Henry-the piece you mention is a coil spring that connects the motor shaft to the governor shaft. I think it's there to absorb any sudden shock and isolate any motor vibration.
Thanks for your comments!
Bob

[VictrolaGuy - Walt]

I'm working on my first Electrola VV-XVI motor assembly, and need some help. During testing it makes a quick knocking noise when in its correct horizontal position. The noise disappears when the motor board is tilted up on its support bracket. I believe there's too much side play in the commutator shaft and wonder if it's missing some parts. In the picture below is a washer I believe went on the shaft end. There was a second washer with a flat detent on its rim, but that's gone missing.
If anyone's had a good amount of experience with these I'd appreciate your advice. PM's are welcome. Thanks!
Bob

The attachment DSC04653.JPG is no longer available

Bob, before I send a lot of pictures or start writing much can you verify that the motor shaft (after exiting the motor housing and prior to the governor) is setup like the one in the following picture? I've also included other views just to be able to know that what you have is the same.

I have worked on five or six of the universal motors including the one in the picture which is in my VE-500 Sheraton. I think that all of the motors are the same with no significant variations that I recall.

[barnettrp21122]

Walt-Thanks for your detailed pictures, and thanks for posting!
Yes, my setup is exactly the same as yours.
I've done some more adjusting, pushing the spring connecting motor and governor shafts further into their slots, and have adjusted the governor bearing so there's just the slightest amount of play. That seemed to help.
I cleaned the commutator using a pencil eraser pressed against it while running. The carbon brushes were sparking a bit and I smoothed those following the "Look for the Dog" instructions provided by Victor back in the day.
That helped a lot in quieting things too.
I've played a couple dozen sides and things sound pretty good. I like the electric motor coupled with acoustic playback!
Thanks again to all for the help!
The VE XVI is pictured below.
Bob