Help with Victrola No.4 sound box

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Stan
Victor Jr
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:49 pm

Help with Victrola No.4 sound box

Post by Stan »

I recently rebuilt a Victrola No.4 "A" sound box but the sound is only marginally better than an Exhibition when playing early electrics. I also have an HMV No.4 which is much better, a viable alternative to the Orthophonic. Although the 4"A" is pot metal, it comes apart easily. Here's my rebuild:

(1) replaced original metal rimmed mica diaphragm with solid mica
(2) experimented with gaskets: reproductions (from Walt Sommers), white tubing, & homemade rubber ones - little difference
(3) replaced flange (also from Walt Sommers)

I've also adjusted the needle bar tension screws, etc. But I can't get it to sound as good as my HMV. One odd thing about the 4"A" is the oval opening below the needle frame - you can see the gasket, but that's the design. Maybe I should see if Ron Sitko could fix it? I haven't dealt with but folks here seem to like his work.

PS I haven't rebuilt the HMV, I'm hesitant to work on it given that the sound is good, although some records have a slight flutter/fuzziness reminiscent of when a fiber needles starts to deteriorate.

Thanks,
Stan

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12jslater
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Re: Help with Victrola No.4 sound box

Post by 12jslater »

My guess would be that hmv used brass front rings and that victor used something else.

OrthoFan
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Re: Help with Victrola No.4 sound box

Post by OrthoFan »

If the sound box is completely air-tight after the rebuild it could be one of two issues:

1) The diaphragm may be too thick/massive or inflexible. (Can you try another diaphragm?) I'm wondering, was the original one damaged? The ring, from which the mica portion was designed to plunge, was a modified design to give the sound box more of a bass kick than the solid mica diaphragm.

2) The needle-bar pivots may need some tweaking. This site provides some excellent step by step rebuilding instructions and tips -- http://www.restore-a-gram.co.uk/hmv-no4 ... 4589510399 Especially helpful is this page, detailing the adjustment of the needle bar assembly (for both the #4 and #5a/5b) -- http://www.restore-a-gram.co.uk/hmv-no- ... 4589510400 (click on the small images to make them full size for viewing/printing).

HTH,
OrthoFan

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VictrolaGuy - Walt
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Re: Help with Victrola No.4 sound box

Post by VictrolaGuy - Walt »

Stan wrote:I recently rebuilt a Victrola No.4 "A" sound box but the sound is only marginally better than an Exhibition when playing early electrics. I also have an HMV No.4 which is much better, a viable alternative to the Orthophonic. Although the 4"A" is pot metal, it comes apart easily. Here's my rebuild:

(1) replaced original metal rimmed mica diaphragm with solid mica
(2) experimented with gaskets: reproductions (from Walt Sommers), white tubing, & homemade rubber ones - little difference
(3) replaced flange (also from Walt Sommers)

I've also adjusted the needle bar tension screws, etc. But I can't get it to sound as good as my HMV. One odd thing about the 4"A" is the oval opening below the needle frame - you can see the gasket, but that's the design. Maybe I should see if Ron Sitko could fix it? I haven't dealt with but folks here seem to like his work.

PS I haven't rebuilt the HMV, I'm hesitant to work on it given that the sound is good, although some records have a slight flutter/fuzziness reminiscent of when a fiber needles starts to deteriorate.

Thanks,
Stan
Stan, I sent a message to you through the eBay listing you mentioned - and you have my card if you need to contact me. I will be glad to take a look at the reproducer and adjust/repair it, gratis. There are other points of service beyond those already mentioned that should also be looked at.

Stan
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Help with Victrola No.4 sound box

Post by Stan »

Thanks, Walt. I just wanted to add that I reinstalled the original metal rimmed diaphragm, and I think the solid mica one is better, at least it provides more volume. It may be that needle bar pivots need adjustment, or perhaps the pot metal itself is the culprit, as 12jslater suggests.

donniej
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Re: Help with Victrola No.4 sound box

Post by donniej »

The one 4A I had rebuilt seemed swollen because the diaphragm was loose. I ended up cutting shims out of thick paper (using a gasket as a template)) and adding them until the sound quality was good.

Stan
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Re: Help with Victrola No.4 sound box

Post by Stan »

donniej wrote:The one 4A I had rebuilt seemed swollen because the diaphragm was loose. I ended up cutting shims out of thick paper (using a gasket as a template)) and adding them until the sound quality was good.
Interesting idea - thanks. Was it one of the single piece diaphragms? If it's separate diaphragms, what's the material? As noted above, I've experimented with several configurations, all of which altered the tightness of the fit. But the sound difference is surprisingly minimal, which makes me think there's something else going on. The 2 HMVs I have do a great job, I'm wondering if the all pot metal Victrola 4A has simply deteriorated.

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