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 Post subject: Suggestions wanted for repair of a .25" hole in a metal horn
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:41 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
Stop for a visit when in Oregon.
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 5464
Location: Albany, Oregon
I just purchased a Victor Junior with the black horn. The horn has a .25" hole near the outside edge of the horn bell. I was thinking of placing some masking tape on the outside of the horn and then filling the hole with JB Weld from the other side. I thought I would place a bit of Vaseline on the sticky part of the tape that showed through the hole in the hopes that I could pull the tape off without pulling off my repair.

Will that work?

I'd love to hear other suggestions. :)

Thanks, Jerry Blais


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions wanted for repair of a .25" hole in a metal
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:03 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:46 pm
Posts: 897
Location: riverside calif
Is it too big to solder and sand down?? That can be tricky too. It depends where the hole is located. Is it deep in and hard to reach or at the large end and easier to work on. ??? Some people have used bondo or repairs too but I am not sure how well it will work on horns that vibrate. Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions wanted for repair of a .25" hole in a metal
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:48 am 
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Victor II
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:55 am
Posts: 229
Location: North East Ohio U.S.A.
1/4-inch hole ought to solder nicely. You did say it was near the bell so this ought to be an easy fix. Solder far preferred to JB weld for its ability to vibrate with the metal and not dampen. One possibility is to tape some foil over the hole and solder it as well as the horn; then sand away the foil as you dress the soldered horn with sand paper and emery cloth.
John


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions wanted for repair of a .25" hole in a metal
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:23 pm 
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Victor V
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:01 pm
Posts: 2121
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania
Jerry, I'd take that horn to a brass instrument repair person! A brass patch can be soldered over the hole, and touched up to match. If it were mine, I'd not use bondo or JB weld! A skilled craftsman, one who specializes in brass, is the way to go IMO. You'd be surprised by the variety of damage that can be inflicted upon brass instruments in a marching band, far worse than a .25" hole, and these technicians have seen it all.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions wanted for repair of a .25" hole in a metal
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:42 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 1734
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
What Henry suggests is good, however, assuming you don't want a big paint repair I'd get a product like a two part epoxy such as "Quicksteel" and make a small plug and plug the hole. Flatten it as well as possible on both sides to match the horn removing excess material and let it cure a couple days. Use a dremel and a small sanding stone on LOW speed to spot sand, then spot touch your black paint by blotting it with black paint on a Q tip over the repair area that you've kept as small as possible.

Soldering is the best repair BUT the heat is going to blister the surrounding paint. Sometimes less is more.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions wanted for repair of a .25" hole in a metal
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:00 pm
Posts: 3290
Location: Western, WA State
Here is what I have been doing for many years. I haven't had much luck with bondo or any of the fillers, or 2 part epoxy.. The plug always falls out when I sand, no matter how clean the surface is or,how careful I sand. First make sure that there are no jagged edges around the hole. If there are, file or sand smooth. Next, cut a small piece of paper, copy paper or something like the thickness is good. Use ACC(crazy glue) and glue one side. After it dries, saturate the hole with more crazy glue. After that is done, repeat the procedure on the other side. When everything is dried and cured, about 24 hours, sand the areas on both sides. The final result have the excess paper removed, leaving the paper in the hole intact. This is a very strong, and solid repair. The paper saturated with crazy glue will withstand the friction of sanding. Then you can touch up the spot or repaint the horn.
Harvey kravitz


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions wanted for repair of a .25" hole in a metal
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:56 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 1734
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Phonofreak wrote:
Here is what I have been doing for many years. I haven't had much luck with bondo or any of the fillers, or 2 part epoxy.. The plug always falls out when I sand, no matter how clean the surface is or,how careful I sand. First make sure that there are no jagged edges around the hole. If there are, file or sand smooth. Next, cut a small piece of paper, copy paper or something like the thickness is good. Use ACC(crazy glue) and glue one side. After it dries, saturate the hole with more crazy glue. After that is done, repeat the procedure on the other side. When everything is dried and cured, about 24 hours, sand the areas on both sides. The final result have the excess paper removed, leaving the paper in the hole intact. This is a very strong, and solid repair. The paper saturated with crazy glue will withstand the friction of sanding. Then you can touch up the spot or repaint the horn.
Harvey kravitz


Brilliant. :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions wanted for repair of a .25" hole in a metal
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1908
Location: Harrison Township, MI
Jerry,

Have you considered just leaving it alone? If the existing finish on the horn is anywhere near nice yet, almost any "fix" will entail some degree of sanding that will ultimately remove more original finish, taking the "damaged" area from ¼" to maybe ¾".

For the sake of argument, if you put this machine up for sale at some point, and I were to consider buying it, I would find the patch to be a big turn off, while a hole, made many years ago, wouldn't bother me so much. Of course, I would prefer no hole at all, as obviously you would too, but it's there and to "remove" it would most likely leave its own mark. (Not saying you would do a bad job of it, but it would be extremely difficult to do the repair invisibly, as you might agree.)


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions wanted for repair of a .25" hole in a metal
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:28 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
Stop for a visit when in Oregon.
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 5464
Location: Albany, Oregon
Quote:
Have you considered just leaving it alone? If the existing finish on the horn is anywhere near nice yet, almost any "fix" will entail some degree of sanding that will ultimately remove more original finish, taking the "damaged" area from ¼" to maybe ¾".

For the sake of argument, if you put this machine up for sale at some point, and I were to consider buying it, I would find the patch to be a big turn off, while a hole, made many years ago, wouldn't bother me so much. Of course, I would prefer no hole at all, as obviously you would too, but it's there and to "remove" it would most likely leave its own mark. (Not saying you would do a bad job of it, but it would be extremely difficult to do the repair invisibly, as you might agree.)


I do respect your opinion. I suppose we all have our own tolerance level for repairs and refinishing. I expect a certain amount of imperfections due to use, being moved, and environmental conditions. I am less tolerant to intentional damage done by some individual for no logical reason. Somebody placed a .25" drill bit against that little Victor Junior horn and pulled the trigger on the drill. :x I can't imagine why anyone would do such a thing. I don't think it was done that long ago. You can see where the bit walked around before it got started. Those marks are free of rust while there are traces of rust on other areas of the horn. It's had some bad history and I hope to give it some good history.

I do agree that it will be very difficult for me to do an "invisible" repair.

Respectfully, Jerry Blais


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions wanted for repair of a .25" hole in a metal
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:41 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1908
Location: Harrison Township, MI
Jerry B. wrote:
Quote:
Have you considered just leaving it alone? If the existing finish on the horn is anywhere near nice yet, almost any "fix" will entail some degree of sanding that will ultimately remove more original finish, taking the "damaged" area from ¼" to maybe ¾".

For the sake of argument, if you put this machine up for sale at some point, and I were to consider buying it, I would find the patch to be a big turn off, while a hole, made many years ago, wouldn't bother me so much. Of course, I would prefer no hole at all, as obviously you would too, but it's there and to "remove" it would most likely leave its own mark. (Not saying you would do a bad job of it, but it would be extremely difficult to do the repair invisibly, as you might agree.)


I do respect your opinion. I suppose we all have our own tolerance level for repairs and refinishing. I expect a certain amount of imperfections due to use, being moved, and environmental conditions. I am less tolerant to intentional damage done by some individual for no logical reason. Somebody placed a .25" drill bit against that little Victor Junior horn and pulled the trigger on the drill. :x I can't imagine why anyone would do such a thing. I don't think it was done that long ago. You can see where the bit walked around before it got started. Those marks are free of rust while there are traces of rust on other areas of the horn. It's had some bad history and I hope to give it some good history.

I do agree that it will be very difficult for me to do an "invisible" repair.

Respectfully, Jerry Blais


Jerry,

Reading the further description of the hole, it sounds as if I might come to the same conclusions that you have. Please know that I didn't mean to preach to you about how you should enjoy your machine :) Hope it didn't come across like that.

FWIW, I've seen similar holes drilled in similar locations. I too have always wondered why.


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