The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:42 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: New Orthophonic Diaphragms & Gaskets???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:53 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: Harrison Township, MI
Restoring a brass Orthophonic reproducer. I recently purchased a new diaphragm and gaskets from an eBay seller. Wondering what the general opinions are about each. (I think there's only one source for each on eBay?) Are the diaphragms considered to perform well? Years ago, the gaskets that were being sold were way too thick. I made my own out of silicon rubber, .015 thick. Are the new gaskets the proper thickness?

BTW, not meaning to "bash" anyone's products here.

I purchased this reproducer at a Stanton auction about 1 year ago. The retaining ring was missing, so the "restorer" substituted JB Weld, and packed the area formerly occupied by the ring with the JBW. The bearings were also missing and replaced with pieces of rubber tubing stuffed in the bearing pockets. After picking out the JB Weld enough to remove the back plate, I discovered the horribly mangled threads in the reproducer body. Even if anyone had a retainer ring, there's no way it would have fit in those ruined threads. I mounted the reproducer body in my lathe and recut the threads, enlarging them slightly until the threads looked good and well formed again. It didn't matter what size the thread is now, because I had to make a new retaining ring anyway, so I just made one to fit. Came out very nice. Now waiting for my order of diaphragm, bearings & gaskets to arrive. It was a lot of work, but when I see what they're selling for now, I get inspired to rebuild the one I've got. Should be nice!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New Orthophonic Diaphragms & Gaskets???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:29 am 
Offline
Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: Harrison Township, MI
Nobody has ever used these??? The diaphragm seller says he's sold 40 of them...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New Orthophonic Diaphragms & Gaskets???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:32 pm 
Offline
Victor III
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 744
JerryVan wrote:
Nobody has ever used these??? The diaphragm seller says he's sold 40 of them...


Reminds me of when MacDonald's use to have how many they have sold posted on their sign. My dad always joked: "Yeah, but how many were actually eaten??

Maybe he has sold 40 of them and nobody liked them? Probably not the case. I would enjoy seeing pics of the repaired reproducer and the new retaining ring.
Dave D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New Orthophonic Diaphragms & Gaskets???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:56 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:59 pm
Posts: 772
Location: Ontario Canada
Dave D wrote:

I would enjoy seeing pics of the repaired reproducer and the new retaining ring.
Dave D




Yaaahhh!!!! Pics or it never happened!!!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New Orthophonic Diaphragms & Gaskets???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:24 pm 
Offline
Victor II
User avatar
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:25 pm
Posts: 290
I've bought alot of gasket kits and such from cyber-tigger (walt sommers) on ebay. Everything has been high quality and fit the purpose of what his auction stated.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New Orthophonic Diaphragms & Gaskets???
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:53 am 
Offline
Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: Harrison Township, MI
Travis,

Thanks!


Mr. Grumpy & Mr. DaveD,

I'll try for some pics. Myself & my projects live in 2 different homes right now, so it's not the most convenient set-up.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New Orthophonic Diaphragms & Gaskets???
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:09 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: Harrison Township, MI
Well, I can finally give a partial update regarding my original question.

The new diaphragm: Worked extremely well. Very satisfied with it. As Wyatt describes in his Orthophonic rebuild notes, I glued the original spider to the new diaphragm, after removing the tabs that crimp the spider to its original assembly. I used JB Weld, putting just a small dot on each leg of the spider. I was concerned about the heat of soldering the needle bar in place, melting the JB Weld, but as "PhonoJim" mentioned, the soldering operation doesn't seem to hurt the shellac used in original assemblies, so it's not likely to be an issue with JB Weld either. He was correct. Just the same, I used conventional JB Weld, versus the "5 Minute" variety. The conventional is rated for over 500 degrees F, while the 5 minute stuff is good to about half that temperature.

The gaskets: I ended up not using them. As was the case many years ago when I rebuilt a batch of Orthophonics, they are .031 thick. I consider that too thick. Originals that I've measured are usually about .015 - .020 thick. Doesn't sound like a big difference, but it seems to make the retaining ring hang out of the reproducer housing by a thread or so. I can't believe that's the intended fit. Using my gaskets, at .015 thickness, the retaining rings come just flush with the reproducer housings. I cut mine from a sheet of silicone rubber, using a hole punch that cuts the inside & outside diameters simultaneously, (something I made years ago).

The bearings: I didn't mention the bearings in my original post. The new bearings came with a few extra, (thank you!), and some small sections of white gasket hose. The intention, as described in the instructions, was to fit a small piece of hose over the needle arm cross pin, on each side. Then add the bearings, (the hose supposedly there to support the bearings during assembly and to keep the pin centered), then place another piece of hose over the bearings. Most likely due to my own clumsiness, I couldn't make the hose thing work. As I've done in the past, I just put small bit of grease in each bearing pocket and inserted the bearings, one at a time, picking them up with a toothpick that had a dab of grease on the end. I put 8 bearings in each pocket. I found it best to place the first 4 bearings 90 degrees apart. This centers the pin which is a huge help. Then the next 4 bearings simply go in between the first 4. I then flip it over and do the other side. When both sides are done, and the needle arm is centered in the bearing block, I gently push down on each bearing to wedge it in place between the tapered pin and the bearing pocket. I usually do not place rubber backer behind the bearings, but instead, just install the caps. (It still amazes me that the bearings never seem to come loose.)

I did take some pictures of the housing with the recut threads and the new retaining ring. I don't have the photos handy right now, however I'll post them soon, along with a photo of the completed reproducer.

By the way, the diaphragm, bearings & gaskets are the ones currently available on Ebay. They are not the ones sold by Walt Sommers.

Let me also clarify, I'm not bashing anybody's products or techniques here. Just telling what I did and my opinions of the various aspects of the rebuild. Hopefully somebody finds some value in it. I don't claim to be an expert of any kind, but I do really like the results.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New Orthophonic Diaphragms & Gaskets???
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:22 am 
Offline
Victor II
User avatar
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:25 pm
Posts: 290
Thanks for that. I haven't tried messing with my orthophonic reproducers yet, but eventually will get around to it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New Orthophonic Diaphragms & Gaskets???
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:35 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: Harrison Township, MI
travisgreyfox wrote:
Thanks for that. I haven't tried messing with my orthophonic reproducers yet, but eventually will get around to it



You're welcome Travis. Hope it helps you some when you start working on yours.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New Orthophonic Diaphragms & Gaskets???
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:51 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: Harrison Township, MI
Mr Grumpy wrote:
Dave D wrote:

I would enjoy seeing pics of the repaired reproducer and the new retaining ring.
Dave D




Yaaahhh!!!! Pics or it never happened!!!!!



O.K., finally. These are pics of the re-cut threads in the brass reproducer body and the new retaining ring. The housing already had the gold plating removed, so I just buffed up the brass. The thing has been treated rough, so you can still see some nicks. Anyway, working great great now!


Attachments:
DSC04318.JPG
DSC04318.JPG [ 136.45 KiB | Viewed 424 times ]
DSC04317.JPG
DSC04317.JPG [ 150.27 KiB | Viewed 424 times ]
DSC04316.JPG
DSC04316.JPG [ 130.16 KiB | Viewed 424 times ]
DSC04314.JPG
DSC04314.JPG [ 151.06 KiB | Viewed 424 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.