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 Post subject: How do you track down a warble in a cylinder phono?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:44 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 726
I am finishing up an Edison Standard Model F. It has a new mandrel shaft bearing. When I switch the machine on, the mandrel takes right off, so I think the bearing is ok. It plays 2.5 Blue Amberol cylinders on one winding. But it has a slight warble. The mandrel shaft runs straight and true.

Is this likely a belt issue or should I be looking elsewhere? I would appreciate any tips, suggestions, or prayers.
Dave D


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 Post subject: Re: How do you track down a warble in a cylinder phono?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:11 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1895
Location: Harrison Township, MI
Hi Dave. Most of those conversations here always come down to the governor. Dissimilar springs, bent friction plate, gummed up felt pad fork, gummed up felt have all been at fault. Also look at the belt to see if there's any odd areas on it that may cause a "bump" going over the idler wheel.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you track down a warble in a cylinder phono?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:16 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1895
Location: Harrison Township, MI
Dave,

Just occurred to me, you're not playing a Betsy Lane Shepard record are you? :D


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 Post subject: Re: How do you track down a warble in a cylinder phono?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:11 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 726
Hi Jerry,
I was hoping you would chime in since I know you are an excellent repairman.

This motor and top works were thoroughly cleaned, all pivots and shafts polished in my lathe, and then lubed. I polished the brass gov flange in the lathe, too. I will take it apart and put it back in the lathe and check to see if it is bent.

I admit to having belt phobia. It takes me a couple of tries usually to get one I like. I just did another Model F Standard for a friend last weekend and everything went well on the first try. That is why I am so frustrated with this one.

I read an older post where you suggested weighing the gov weights. They are all the same grams.

If the belt is too loose or too tight, will that cause a warble?

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: How do you track down a warble in a cylinder phono?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:19 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 726
I tried the rubber o ring that The Victrola Guy discussed. It took a bit of work to find it at Home Depot because I foolishly let someone there try to help me.

Anyway, I installed it and now the machine runs flutter free. I was skeptical when I saw these for sale on Ebay, but I am pleased.

I will make a new leather belt now that I have eliminated any other issue. I just don't like the look of the O ring
Dave D


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 Post subject: Re: How do you track down a warble in a cylinder phono?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:21 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:00 pm
Posts: 3259
Location: Western, WA State
Dave, a loose or tight belt will cause a warble. When you install a belt, Make sure it is snug, not loose or tight. it's a matter of feel. After the belt is installed, put your finger on the belt where the pulley is. Slowly twist the mandrel with your other hand. If the mandrel does not turn at all, the belt is too tight. If the mandrel turns too freely, then the belt is loose. Ideally, the mandrel should turn very slightly. Let us know how that works.
Harvey Kravitz


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 Post subject: Re: How do you track down a warble in a cylinder phono?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 726
I will try your method. Honestly, I have made many belts, but not very often did they work on the first try. Your suggestions are appreciated.

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: How do you track down a warble in a cylinder phono?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Victor IV
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"Did you ever stop to think that pleasure is a duty?" (Victor sales pamphlet)
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:19 pm
Posts: 1245
I've had my best luck using the supple leather belting that "MicaMonster" has offered for sale. I've installed it in all my machines and it's effectively taken care of any flutter problems I've had. I recommend it!
Bob
"Comparison is the thief of joy" Theodore Roosevelt


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 Post subject: Re: How do you track down a warble in a cylinder phono?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:09 pm 
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Victor VI
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:00 pm
Posts: 3259
Location: Western, WA State
I'll second that. Mica Monster has the best belt material. I used Wyatt's, but to thick. Tim Fabrizio had good belting. APSCO is so-so, and you can't get it anymore. Go with Mica Monster's belt material.
Harvey Kravitz


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 Post subject: Re: How do you track down a warble in a cylinder phono?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:58 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 726
I have some of Wyatt's belt material and think it is very nice. I think I had the belt too loose. After all these years you would think I would be better at making belts. I always scarf them and then I use my little belt sander to smooth out any bump and then I use aniline dye to color the sand mark so they look good. This last one looked great, but it was too loose.
Thanks!
Dave


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